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 Post subject: A note on experience and maturity
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 10:43 pm 
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I just finished reading the post about age requirements for restaurant gigs (now locked). I found some of the things paddy and the others had to say a little interesting, so that's where this post is coming from (sorry in advance if I ramble). They talk about the 14 year old not being ready to handle certain situations that come up in the restaurant, having not had the experience or maturity yet. The one about the lady breast feeding is particularly interesting. Fallingblood says it happens more often then you'd think. This is the first time I've heard of it happening, and my thought is that I'd probably avoid approaching that table if she was doing that. I know very few women that enjoy being entertained by magicians while they breastfeed. If the magician was already at the table, it would probably be a good choice for the woman to try to hold out another minute or two until he leaves.

Other things mentioned are an angry boyfriend yelling at you to come perform for his gf right away, being vomited on, and being harrassed by a drunk. While I can see how maturity will inevitably help an individual deal with these types of situations, I think it is tough to be helped by experience. It would be an odd thing to try to "practice" for these types of situations, and you may never know how to handle them until faced with them. It also seems to me that there are few (if any) other venues where these incidents are likely to occur.

If faced with any of these unfortunate situations for the very first time, an individual will probably act on instinct. No matter how this works out, they will probably think how they could handle it better in the future. I think what you guys were saying is that with age and experience comes maturity, which will help deal with these situations in the longrun. Also, the more you perform and may experience other difficult situations, these may help to prepare you for the worst ones when the time comes. Even with all this in mind, one may never be truly prepared for situations such as these. I think it also depends on the type of person you are. A 17 year old performer may be faced with an embarassing and terriffying situation on the spot, and come out of it okay. At the same time, it is possible for an experienced 48 year old performer who has been working restaurants for 20 some years to be faced with the same situation, and not handle it well. I understand it is less likely, but it's the way things work sometimes.

One last thing. I spoke to a fairly young magician about a week ago who was giving me advice on restaurant magic. He got his first restaurant gig at 15. He used to hang out at a local magic shop with four other magicians, one of whom was the owner of the shop and worked a busy restaurant gig three nights a week. One day the guy was arrested (why isn't important) and thrown in jail. The restaurant (frantic without their entertainer) called the magic shop and told them to send some guys over to help for the night. They sent out our friend along with three other guys. Little did he know it was actually an audition. Now these three others were highly experienced and our friend was 15 and knew about four tricks in total. They all worked the tables for the night. At each table, our friend said as he was leaving "Please tell the management on the way out that (let's just call him Jim) did a good job." The next night the gm called him up and told him he got the job. This 15 year old kid with four tricks got a paying restaurant gig three nights a week over these other guys who had been doing magic for people for decades. How? His answer to this was that he played the cute card. And of course he was referred by nine tables. It's been almost twelve years since that night, and our friend still has that same gig three nights a week.

Please respond with any interesting comments. :D


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 10:52 pm 
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born to perform.

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That's a rare case. Nothing more. While your friend got this job, it is by no means the norm. Congrats to him, but he seemed to be a natural performer. For most of the people here, this is not so. They are simply trying to turn a quick buck. No one's saying "you're never allowed to work in a restaurant", we're telling them to wait until a time when they're mature enough to handle it and old enough to be taken seriously.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 10:52 pm 
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I would imagine the other guys were ticked off!

Sean


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 3:51 am 
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The case that you bring up is totally different than what we run into here. In your situation the owner of the shop knew the kid and was very aware of his maturity and abilities. He also knew that the personality of the kid would fit into that restaurant.

Big difference than what I have seen on these forums. Here a kid has a hobby and may, or may not be good at it so he decides that working restaurants is easy money. There is an acronym, TANSTAAFL that these kids don't seem to understand. It means There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch. In more simple terms, in everything we do we have to WORK to be as perfect as possible BEFORE we can sell our service for money. A restaurant magician represents the restaurant, he represents himself and he represents all of us as professionals.

As to the other things brought up that happen, Yes I have had every one of those happen. The breast feeding happens almost once a week, the others less often.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 8:03 am 
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Paddy it was actually the owner of the shop that had the gig to begin with and was then thrown in jail, so the restaurant ended up making the decision, without his influence. They did not previously know the kid and they probably decided on him based on all the comments they had gotten on the audition night. My point is that I've heard a lot of guys on this forum say that patrons would much rather see an older magician as opposed to a kid. That didn't seem to be the case here, as he "played the cute card" and everyone seemed to love it. I do, however, agree with what you guys tell most of the kids on this forum. I just thought the story is interesting.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 9:40 am 
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I dont exactly "play the cute card", but i have performed in front of lots of people that have enjoyed me. (and no Paddy, Scotch and soda is not one of the tricks i performed)

People dont see magic that often, so whenever someone performs it to them, whether the performer be 15 years old or 30, they would probably be impressed either way.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 10:18 am 
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Bolenski wrote:
I dont exactly "play the cute card", but i have performed in front of lots of people that have enjoyed me. (and no Paddy, Scotch and soda is not one of the tricks i performed)

People dont see magic that often, so whenever someone performs it to them, whether the performer be 15 years old or 30, they would probably be impressed either way.


They will be impressed but the bar is rased exponetially when you are being paid. Sure it's "cute" when a kid playes hot crossed buns on the piano but he has a long way to go before he gets paid. When money is brought into the situation you must be PROFESIONAL not some kid with a couple of tricks. Even when you perform them well you must be mature and know how to deal with people.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 2:01 pm 
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Bolenski wrote:
People dont see magic that often, so whenever someone performs it to them, whether the performer be 15 years old or 30, they would probably be impressed either way.
No, that's not how it is. If I'm paying for entertainment, I'm not going to higher a 13 year old. I'm going to hire someone that's 30. They have more experience, and they will be easier to deal with. I don't want the hassle of messing with a 13 year old who has no idea what they are doing.

That's the difference. You put money into the situation, the whole thing changes. Also, it depends on what type of magic you are doing. A 15 year old doing mentalism isn't going to be too impressive, because they can't pull it off. A 15 year old trying to do adult magic won't be able to pull it off. And many times, people will see the kid as nothing but cute. They won't be impressed.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 4:00 pm 
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I've dealt with the breastfeeding mom. I've experienced the obnoxious drunk. Ive entertained the overbearing boyfriend. But I'm in my 40's and I've gone through a lot in life to get me to this point. For instance,

- I have two kids of my own and my wife went through the breast feeding thing with each child;
- I have worked in and managed a restaurant and a bar, so I'm used to inebriated patrons;
- I have worked in various service industries for close to 20 years and so I'm used to dealing with difficult customers from almost every walk of life.

The honest truth is there's no way I could have handled any of these situations without the life experiences mentioned above (no matter how old I was).

Kent


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 Post subject: Re: A note on experience and maturity
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 7:48 pm 
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jackpot6200 wrote:
This 15 year old kid with four tricks got a paying restaurant gig three nights a week over these other guys who had been doing magic for people for decades. How?


Because the management was naive. They didn't know the difference between a professional magician, and some kid who knew a few "tricks".

Had the kid been mature enough, and had enough business experience, he would have known that he did not have a product to sell, and should have turned down the gig.

But excitement got in the way because at that (and I will not say age) level of experience in the art, it is flattering to hear someone wants to pay you to entertain them.

Just because someone knows how to change a tire, doesn't mean that person knows how to balance them, change the breaks, plug holes in flats, etc. If given a job offer to do that in a garage, the first thing that comes out of his mouth should be either "Will you train?" or "I'm sorry, I don't have any experience doing this".

So what did the kid do? Obviously picked up a few new "tricks", read the instructions, and ran out and performed them right away. That would have been his only option other than performing the same 4 tricks for everyone.

He obviously at that point, had not put the investment in time in to his "profession".

8)


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 Post subject: Re: A note on experience and maturity
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 7:53 pm 
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jackpot6200 wrote:
If faced with any of these unfortunate situations for the very first time, an individual will probably act on instinct.


No. Acting on instinct is a rash, emotional response/reaction. Those actions generally come from those with little life experience.

With life experience, a mature individual can handle any new situation with a cool, calm collective.

8)


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 Post subject: Re: A note on experience and maturity
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 12:28 am 
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wayno wrote:
Had the kid been mature enough, and had enough business experience, he would have known that he did not have a product to sell, and should have turned down the gig.





Actually I don't believe he should have turned down the gig because it was what ended up really getting him noticed in magic. Today, he is an extremely successful and well-known magician who might not be as well-known if he hadn't started with that gig. He is one of the smoothest slight of hand performers I have ever seen and obviously he's had a great career at that Restaurant considering that he still works there.


wayno wrote:
Just because someone knows how to change a tire, doesn't mean that person knows how to balance them, change the breaks, plug holes in flats, etc. If given a job offer to do that in a garage, the first thing that comes out of his mouth should be either "Will you train?" or "I'm sorry, I don't have any experience doing this".

While this may apply to most professions, and may be the ideal situation for a magic performer, this won't always be the case. When someone is noticed for their talent, they may have an opportunity to start getting paid for it. At this point, it isn't always the case that the person has a full working repetoire that they've practiced and refined for several years. Even so, they will probably accept the job. Let's face it, opportunities don't always come around more than once. I agree that a person should be extremely experienced and prepared before getting paid for their profession, but it doesn't always happen. And keep in mind that magic is a performing art, not a typical profession. People often get noticed in performing arts and start getting paid way before they are fully prepared and greatly experienced (various singers for example). It isn't always a bad thing as these people often end up being very famous and well-known performers. All I'm saying is that starting out young doesn't always turn out badly, I think it depends entirely on the person. 8)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 1:41 am 
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i personally (now) dont think its fair to judge if a kid is mature or not by a forum


weve never seen him perform for others so we have no way of knowing how mature he is by an online forum



i sometimes dont act mature on the forums but i can still entertain adults and amaze them and have them leave me a tip and tell thier friends of theirs about me


O....for those who know me



i got a paying gig coming up in august, my first one...for walkaround performance

what tricks should i get :wink:


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 2:16 am 
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The thing is, while being on a forum, you are still portraying who you are. You may act immature at times (I do), but if for the most part, you show maturity, and that you know what you are talking about, and will except criticism, it really shows. However, if you show constant immaturity, clearly are just saying things because you think you know everything, and cry when someone says you aren't a magic god, then that shows who you really are.

People portray themselves by what they write. Now, it may not be exactly like how you are, but it gives us a very good picture. I mean, look at my posts. What do you think when you read what I have to say? If you put that all together, you really have a good picture of who I am.

Also, for the most part, you do show maturity. I mean, sometimes you do some stuff that's immature, but the maturity outweighs that. And it simply shows one thing, that you're a mature person. Even the most mature person will sometimes act immature.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 2:41 am 
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AND IM NTO TRYING TO ACT HOSTILE IN ANY WAY....JUST WANTED TO SAY THAT



what if its someone, 13-14...been in magic maybe a year

joined the forum

asked a question (which to them..since thier pretty new, seemed good to ask) about what tricks to do in a restraunt

then they get response from ( say paddy) who is more straight forward and he doesnt know paddy "helps" that way

so INSTICTAVELY (sp) the person responds 'immaturely"


just how ive seen it


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