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 Post subject: Are lock picking tools illegal without a certification?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 5:50 pm 
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Joined: 19 Jan 2007
Posts: 48
The name of the thread says it all. A friend told me that if you aren't a certified locksmith, and the police find out you have lock picking tools, they can confiscate them and arrest you etc. Is there any truth to this? I've seen plenty of websites selling lock smithing tools, and before I get a set I'd like to know the truth. Thanks.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 5:55 pm 
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born to perform.

Joined: 08 Jan 2007
Posts: 665
Location: A box next to wal-mart
Why dont you try it, and if you end up in jail then you know if its bad or not... comman since tells you that its illegal if you use it for bad, but for magic, no go ahead, unless you say that your going to break into a bank, robe them and then leave for MAGIC then its ok :lol:

no... if you use it for bad its illegal, if use it for good then its alright. Just dont do what i said :lol: i've already tried it, and look were i am at now, typing this in my jail cell.


-MagicTay



jk about me in jail, just dont use it for bad


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 6:03 pm 
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Location: Texas
thegenius3232 wrote:
Why dont you try it, and if you end up in jail then you know if its bad or not... comman since tells you that its illegal if you use it for bad, but for magic, no go ahead, unless you say that your going to break into a bank, robe them and then leave for MAGIC then its ok :lol:

no... if you use it for bad its illegal, if use it for good then its alright. Just dont do what i said :lol: i've already tried it, and look were i am at now, typing this in my jail cell.


-MagicTay



jk about me in jail, just dont use it for bad


Like usual you are wrong. In some states it can be illegal. It doesnt matter is you use it "for good or bad." Thats just stupid reasoning.

Heck my local locksmith wouldnt teach me how to pick or "work" on locks, because it was illegal to teach a civilian- one not of the lock smith profession. To learn he said I would have to apprentice him.

Many shops, like Cannons wont sell you them with out a certificate of some fashion. I believe if you are a member of IBM of SAM, or if he knows you or knows of you well enough, he will sell them to you.
But there have been and still are, legal restrictions on them in some forum.


IF you really want to know, use real common sense- not the kind like "genius" here.
Ask you local authorites. IT varies from state to state, might even differ city to city within the state. Thats what city hall is there for, to aks them questions. Not to ask on a forum full of kids who havent even been in the real world.

I also generally dont recommend them for most people. Since they just dont have the time or patience to learn how to use them properly. It is not an easy still to learn. You also wont need them very often. There are many ways around using them. I only use mine when I am bored.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 6:19 pm 
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Joined: 19 Jan 2007
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Heh well funny enough the genius was right! I just called my local police department and an officer told me it's not illegal to own such tools, even if you're not certified. All that matters is how you use them.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 7:57 pm 
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born to perform.

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baggins321 wrote:
Heh well funny enough the genius was right! I just called my local police department and an officer told me it's not illegal to own such tools, even if you're not certified. All that matters is how you use them.


He wasn't right completly. As David says, it varies from state to state.

wikipedia wrote:
In United States, laws concerning possession of lock picks vary from state to state. Generally, possession and use of lock picks is considered equivalent to the possession of a crowbar or any other tool that may or may not be used in a burglary. Illegal possession of lock picks is generally prosecuted as a felony under the category of possession of burglary tools or similar statutes. In many states, simple possession is completely legal as their statutes require proof of intent. In some states, however, possession without appropriate licensure is considered prima facie evidence of intent to commit a crime, rendering simple possession a crime.[1]

California
In California, locksmiths must be licensed by the state.[2] However simple possession is legal as illegal possession must be coupled with felonious or malicious intent.[3]

Utah
In Utah possession itself is not a crime: intent to commit a crime is also required.[4]


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 8:53 pm 
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baggins321 wrote:
Heh well funny enough the genius was right! I just called my local police department and an officer told me it's not illegal to own such tools, even if you're not certified. All that matters is how you use them.


No he was wrong. I was right in telling you to contact your local police deparment.

I have been a performing escape artist for a while now. I know what I am talking about. The "genius" is a kid that cant spell or give good advice most of the time.

Its all to opinion of the cops. They can arrest you with them in any state, if they so please. They dont know your intent. If I saw a punk teen with them, I would be very warry. Most teens dont go around trying to pick locks for the fun of it.

If you plan on trying to be like the pickers on TV of in a Movie. Forget about it. Its not that fast or simple.
I would recommend once again. Dont worry about the picks for now. LEarn to work around them. I highly doubt you need them. Plus a good set is not cheap. IF it is cheap, its a cheap set.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 9:12 pm 
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I have to agree with David here. I've never had to use mine in any escape. If I want the illusion of picking a lock, I get a gimmicked lock. Otherwise, I just work around them.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 11:18 pm 
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I was joking and meant that coincidentally genius was right in my case. I wasn't sure if there was a federal law that applied to all states concerning the ownership of lockpicking tools, which is why I started this thread to begin with. Now that I know it varies from state to state I'm glad I took Davids' advice and called my local police department to get the lowdown.

You're right in saying they don't know you're intent Dave. Which is exactly why they can't just arrest you for possessing them. At least in Florida. There must be probable cause and what not. And its not like I'd be walking around at night waving the tools around in a cops face. It would be in the context of a magic act which is what I told the officer.

And I'd rather not go the cop out way and get a gimmicked lock. I'd rather spend the time and practice learning a new interesting skill. (plus it might come in handy if i lock myself out of my car or house haha).

David any advice on how to get started? I was probably going to get Dixie Dooly's escapology set. I've seen decent sets of lockpicking tools for as cheap as $20. The picks aren't exactly that complicated so I doubt they are expensive.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 11:27 pm 
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I used to be a locksmith. Technically, it is illegal for even cops to possess lockpicks, shims, etc, unless they are licensed, certified, bonded, locksmiths themselves. However, most places ignore the law, and let cops carry picks, etc, to help injured/unconscious motorists out of burning cars after wrecks, and the like. You possessing such things would get you busted for possession of burglars' tools. The way to avoid that is to become a locksmith. Take the Foley-Belsaw course, graduate, become certified, get bonded, and you are covered...provided you are old enough to take the course/ be bonded. It is best to follow the law strictly on this sort of thing. You may get away without getting busted 99 times out of 100...but that one time you do get busted can change your life by giving you a criminal record. It will also make you a suspect every time someone uses lockpicks to enter, and rip off, a place in town without getting caught. Cops who know you possess picks will pick you up...again, and again, and again. If you doubt me, ask your local District Attorney, and the National Locksmith Society.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 11:36 pm 
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Location: Canada
Here in Canada it is illegal to own any lock picks, or slim jims without having a liscense to practice locksmithing.

To get the liscense in Alberta is a little more complicated than being a locksmith. Requires finger-printing, criminal record check...... and proof that you are registered for a locksmithing course, by one of the certified schools within the province. Haven't checked on what is involved in the rest of the country.

Otherwise, you are guilty of "POSSESSION OF BREAK-IN INSTRUMENT / Disguise with intent" or possibly a "POSSESSION OF BREAK-IN INSTRUMENT".

But you just have to remember that you have to be "CAUGHT" with them. Which is generally only going to happen while you are breaking the law (with exception to owning them). So I am sure you're pretty safe during your routines.

8)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:16 am 
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born to perform.

Joined: 05 Apr 2004
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Location: Wood River, Illinois
I have been a locksmith for 28 years and an Escape Artist for 38. I have had lock picks since the age of 10. As an Escape Artist you can posses them, but you would not walk around with them on your person they would be kept at home. Picks are good to learn how the different locks work, but rarely used as someone stated before. I have never used picks on stage. If you carry them around with you, you do open yourself for arrest as they are burglery tools, so if you get them, leave them at home.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 4:05 pm 
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born to perform.

Joined: 26 Aug 2007
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wayno wrote:
Here in Canada it is illegal to own any lock picks, or slim jims without having a liscense to practice locksmithing.


8)


Dang it! I love my fresh slim jim meaty snack in the afternoon :(
/sarcasm


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 5:03 pm 
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Joined: 06 Jan 2005
Posts: 476
Location: In some sweet limo, with a hot girl *wakes up and cries*
DavidTheCryptic wrote:
Like usual you are wrong. In some states it can be illegal. It doesnt matter is you use it "for good or bad." Thats just stupid reasoning.


IF you really want to know, use real common sense- not the kind like "genius" here.

Not to ask on a forum full of kids who havent even been in the real world.


Wow 3 bashes in one post...you call yourself DavidTheCryptic, but maybe we should call you DavidTheCritic, because you have to criticize every stinking kid in this forum. Please stop acting like you're "all that" and own the place. Sit down and read the rules again, cause last time I heard, bashing was a BAD thing. You had a suggestion, you turned out to be right. SO WHAT?

Every single time I read a post from you lately, you've criticized someone in some way.

Please just stop, or don't post at all,

Best wishes,

-Trix


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 6:08 pm 
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born to perform.

Joined: 21 Apr 2006
Posts: 2428
Location: Barrow, Alaska
wooo David's on a roll...yeah!!!! :D 8) :lol: :D :mrgreen:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 6:43 am 
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born to perform.

Joined: 08 Jan 2007
Posts: 665
Location: A box next to wal-mart
mmroczka wrote:
DavidTheCryptic wrote:
Like usual you are wrong. In some states it can be illegal. It doesnt matter is you use it "for good or bad." Thats just stupid reasoning.


IF you really want to know, use real common sense- not the kind like "genius" here.

Not to ask on a forum full of kids who havent even been in the real world.


Wow 3 bashes in one post...you call yourself DavidTheCryptic, but maybe we should call you DavidTheCritic, because you have to criticize every stinking kid in this forum. Please stop acting like you're "all that" and own the place. Sit down and read the rules again, cause last time I heard, bashing was a BAD thing. You had a suggestion, you turned out to be right. SO WHAT?

Every single time I read a post from you lately, you've criticized someone in some way.

Please just stop, or don't post at all,

Best wishes,

-Trix



I think David should do more of this, because I learn something, and the other people, and I can see your just a starter on the Fourms, i may be wrong, but you have low post. So yeah.


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