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 Post subject: For All Criss Angel Followers
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 2:06 am 
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Some of you Criss Angel fans out there can't stand the fact that most of us hate him. You call us jealous and defend Criss to the end. Here are of few examples of why Criss Angel is a turd.

-Criss uses camera tricks and edits to pull off his big illusions. Criss even uses camera edits on smaller tricks to boost their wow factor. Now many of you Criss fans for some reason think it is ok for an illusionist to use camera tricks. You claim he is still entertaining people so why does it matter. Well he may be entertaining people, actually I agree he is but lets make it clear that he is entertaining them as a movie maker and not an illusionist.

-Criss pays actors to play along in many of his tricks. This is just low no matter how you look at it. Maybe Criss could take the time to actually learn some real tricks instead of just paying people to act like strangers. Again for you Criss fans there are videos on YouTube that catch Criss lying about how he's never met people before.

-Criss Angel does not do much to protect his secrets. Many of Criss's tricks are known. One of the levitations Criss performs on his show comes to mind. He did a levitation up an escalator and then did the same one in the middle of a food court while completely surrounded. For everyone that knows how it is done you realize that Criss allowed everyone infront of him to see the tricks gimmick. He does this on many of his illusions. Way to protect the secret.

-Criss Angel is hurting magic more than helping it. Because Criss uses camera tricks and actors he is creating a level of amazement that can't be matched unless done on camera. People who go to see live shows will never be satisfied. Criss Angel is risking the quality of his own live show by using these camera tricks. The show will be a Cirque du Soleil show featuring Criss Angel. I'm assuming that because of that a large portion of the show will be Cirque du Soleil with some illusion thrown in. Since Criss can't use camera tricks live he'll have to rely on lower quality illusions. Many people will go expecting an amazing magic show but leave scratching their heads.

So those are the basic reasons why Criss Angel is a piece of garbage. And no I don't feel bad when people expose his camera trickery. Criss himself said he likes to expose people that lie about psychic powers. So obviously people will like to expose him when he lies about not using camera tricks.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 3:27 am 
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Amen to that.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 4:02 pm 
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swatch0 wrote:
Amen to that.


That's EXACTLY what I was going to say! Weird...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 6:02 pm 
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Number one, I haven't seen this show since season one. Number two, show me the paystub. Show me the check where he's paying people. I hear it all the time, but no one can show me the check. Number three, people complain when he uses cameras, people complain when he doesn't. You'll never be happy, so he's not catering to you. He's catering, like we all do, to those that pay the bills. Number four, I can match his levels of amazement. edited, Richard Osterlind just released a set a while back where they show him doing the same thing. Have you ever seen Criss' stage show? If not, shut up. Seriously, if you haven't seen it, you have no right to say he's having to rely on lower quality stuff. I've never seen anyone scratching their heads. The reason you don't like Criss is because you don't like that he's famous and rich and you're not. That's it. No doubt in my mind. I'm not one to call myself a fan, but it's the only reason that people complain about him so much.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 8:01 pm 
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exodus wrote:
Number one, I haven't seen this show since season one. Number two, show me the paystub. Show me the check where he's paying people. I hear it all the time, but no one can show me the check. Number three, people complain when he uses cameras, people complain when he doesn't. You'll never be happy, so he's not catering to you. He's catering, like we all do, to those that pay the bills. Number four, I can match his levels of amazement. edited, Richard Osterlind just released a set a while back where they show him doing the same thing. Have you ever seen Criss' stage show? If not, shut up. Seriously, if you haven't seen it, you have no right to say he's having to rely on lower quality stuff. I've never seen anyone scratching their heads. The reason you don't like Criss is because you don't like that he's famous and rich and you're not. That's it. No doubt in my mind. I'm not one to call myself a fan, but it's the only reason that people complain about him so much.


You are the perfect example of someone who is willing to defend him to the end.

You must not know how many illusions are done. That's the only reason you could be blindly following him. Here are some examples that prove he is using actors and camera edits.

1. http://youtube.com/watch?v=hXmc39yzJyI

This first video is of a simple vanish done by Criss. It is a great example of how he pays actors and uses camera edits. The video starts with him meeting people and asking for their assistance. The clip then shows Criss putting two tables together and asking the people to examine them and look for anything suspicious. Then it cuts to a clip of him climbing up onto the table. This is were camera edit one happens. Just prior you were looking at two regular tables but when it cuts to Criss climbing up onto the table the trick tables have already been moved into position. It is filmed to look like one uninterupted scene. So obviously those 3 people he has watching are actors because they paused with the camera crew and watched them bring in the gimmicked table.

Also that group of people way in the back that the camera flashes to, well they aren't blown away because they saw what happened. Criss allowed all those people to see the secret of the trick.

2. http://youtube.com/watch?v=VRR30Tll6wY

Similar things happen in this one where Criss makes a girl vanish. This illusion is angle sensitive from the back. But there are people back there? Oh thats because they are in on the trick. They see everything that is happening.


Now those are just two examples of how Criss lies about camera tricks. There are many many more. I don't really need to show you a pay stub when I have video proof. I would like to hear how you defend this now?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 8:58 pm 
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Well first, I would defend this by saying, he never stated in any of those videos that he wasn't using camera tricks. He tends to say that a lot, but I didn't hear it in those videos, so, as of right now, you still have the burden of proof on you. For one, there is a way to get the table vanish done WITHOUT camera tricks, but stooges are still required. The other, I'm sure is also capable of being done without camera tricks as there is some fidgeting I'm not quite sure about at a certain time in the video.
The point is, you still haven't proven he used camera tricks, we need a more explicit video, such as his editors in the studio, editing his tricks so that they look like he did them without editing. Until you get that, you're still not right.
Once again, like X I'm not a fan of Criss per se, but you still have proven nothing.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 9:12 pm 
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bucky310 wrote:
Well first, I would defend this by saying, he never stated in any of those videos that he wasn't using camera tricks. He tends to say that a lot, but I didn't hear it in those videos, so, as of right now, you still have the burden of proof on you.


Aren't you admitting right there that you think he may have used camera tricks?

bucky310 wrote:
For one, there is a way to get the table vanish done WITHOUT camera tricks, but stooges are still required.


Again maybe I'm missing something but didn't you just admit that Criss is using either camera tricks or stooges?


bucky310 wrote:
The point is, you still haven't proven he used camera tricks, we need a more explicit video, such as his editors in the studio, editing his tricks so that they look like he did them without editing. Until you get that, you're still not right.


Thats ridiculous. You really think you are going to get a hidden video of Criss's people editing the tape? You are the person on the jury that lets murders go free because the is no tape.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 9:43 pm 
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No the murderers get proven guilty because of evidence found at the scene.
Admitting that he needs stooges isn't admitting that he used camera tricks. I never admitted to him using camera tricks, I said he never said otherwise, as to state that you have proven nothing with these videos. My claim may have been ridiculous, but, you can't prove it.
The way the law system works is that someone is innocent until proven guilty. Please do not disrespect me by stating I am (in your words): "the person on the jury that lets murders go free because the is no tape", apart from the grammatical errors in that sentence, I would look at the evidence in that case. You have presented to me absolutely ZERO pieces of evidence of Criss' use of camera tricks, if there is any.
Go ahead and prove it, but please don't take shots at me simply because I think you MIGHT be wrong.
Oh and ask Jak if I am a fan of Criss' work and he will tell you that I've disliked him from day one.
You have proven nothing, go get some real evidence.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 10:13 pm 
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bucky310 wrote:
You have presented to me absolutely ZERO pieces of evidence of Criss' use of camera tricks, if there is any.

You have proven nothing, go get some real evidence.


Listen it is very simple. There are two regular tables shown. Then Criss pushes the two regular tables together and asks the stooges to examine them. When the video cuts to Criss stepping up onto the tables the two regular tables have been switched with a set of gimmicked tables. The camera doesn't show that part though.

How is that not using camera tricks? Criss cuts filming, replaces the regular tables with gimmicked ones and then starts filming again. What are you not getting?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 12:09 am 
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jverrone wrote:
You are the perfect example of someone who is willing to defend him to the end.


Why? Because I don't like people complaining about guys that are getting working magicians more work? Start working. Start doing real shows for real people giving you real money. Then, Angel won't bug you that much. I'm not a fan. I'm really not. You're more of a fan than I am, because I don't watch his show or search his videos on Youtube.

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You must not know how many illusions are done. That's the only reason you could be blindly following him. Here are some examples that prove he is using actors and camera edits.


Yes I do. I've been doing this stuff for the majority of my life. I know how they work. I just don't care. Now, name for me a vaudeville magician that didn't use stooges. Copperfield still uses them. You complaining about shills shows that you don't care about the history of magic. If that's the case, I really don't care for your opinions. As for the cameras, the only ones that care are the ones that don't care about entertaining their specs. Stop trying to impress them and work on entertaining. That's why Angel doesn't bug me. See, I have guys that tell me all the time that they thought it was all camera tricks, but now they're seeing it live and know it's real. Start entertaining your specs and you won't be bothered with Angel.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 12:10 am 
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jverrone wrote:

Listen it is very simple. There are two regular tables shown. Then Criss pushes the two regular tables together and asks the stooges to examine them. When the video cuts to Criss stepping up onto the tables the two regular tables have been switched with a set of gimmicked tables. The camera doesn't show that part though.

How is that not using camera tricks? Criss cuts filming, replaces the regular tables with gimmicked ones and then starts filming again. What are you not getting?


Proof?


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 1:10 am 
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Come on X, you know these haters can't ever show proof, only speculation. I understand that they probably are camera tricks, but who cares. The idea is to get more people interested in magic again and get the layfolk amazed. This effect can be done for a live audience, it just needs to be controlled more. I see no problem in him using a camera trick here because it is hiding the secret which if he had the tables set up from the get go, it would be easy to figure out. Since he changed them in with a little cut, it keeps the layfolk from suspecting anything, therefore people like you who call him out are the ones who are in the wrong because you are exposing his effect.


Remember this, and I have said this way too many times. Criss Angel's show is a Television Show. It is not a live broadcast, nor is it his stage show. It is a magic TELEVISION SHOW and he needs to alter most things to keep people from rewinding everything and figuring it out.

I am in no way giving him respect because he lost it all with the phenomenom thing, but noone really cares anymore if he uses stooges or cuts because we all know it is true. But who cares? Only those who wish they were him and will never be.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 2:35 am 
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exodus wrote:
jverrone wrote:

Listen it is very simple. There are two regular tables shown. Then Criss pushes the two regular tables together and asks the stooges to examine them. When the video cuts to Criss stepping up onto the tables the two regular tables have been switched with a set of gimmicked tables. The camera doesn't show that part though.

How is that not using camera tricks? Criss cuts filming, replaces the regular tables with gimmicked ones and then starts filming again. What are you not getting?


Proof?


Ok. Then you clearly have no idea how a simple vanish like that is done. If you did you could spot the camera trick a mile away.


magikrn wrote:
Come on X, you know these haters can't ever show proof, only speculation. I understand that they probably are camera tricks, but who cares. The idea is to get more people interested in magic again and get the layfolk amazed. This effect can be done for a live audience, it just needs to be controlled more. I see no problem in him using a camera trick here because it is hiding the secret which if he had the tables set up from the get go, it would be easy to figure out. Since he changed them in with a little cut, it keeps the layfolk from suspecting anything, therefore people like you who call him out are the ones who are in the wrong because you are exposing his effect.


Are you on acid or what? First you say the "haters" don't have proof and can only speculate but then you agree that he is using camera tricks. And to make you look even dumber you agree with the fact that he is using a camera edit to switch tables.

Here is my bit of mentalism. You are all under the age of 23, male, wanna be Criss Angel's that really have poor delivery and if Criss Angel admitted tomorrow on national tv that he uses camera tricks you would all say he must have been joking.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 6:57 am 
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And now you're turning on to insults?
Yes we can see a camera EDIT, not a camera TRICK. A camera TRICK would have had him flying through the air from where he was when he went up to the tables to on top of the tables without him moving a muscle. That would have been a camera trick.
Why does it make magikrn look dumb when he says that? He KNOWS you guys have zero proof of him using camera tricks because we've seen close to 50 people make the same arguments you have, and end up looking like idiots also.
I would never want to be Criss Angel, and if he did admit to using camera tricks, my slate is still clean. All I said, is that you have no proof and there are ways to get those illusions done without camera tricks. That's it.
Please stop insulting us by saying we are "on acid" or calling us "people who let murderers go if there is no video" it's very insulting to our, and yours intelligence.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:31 am 
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jverrone wrote:
exodus wrote:
jverrone wrote:

Listen it is very simple. There are two regular tables shown. Then Criss pushes the two regular tables together and asks the stooges to examine them. When the video cuts to Criss stepping up onto the tables the two regular tables have been switched with a set of gimmicked tables. The camera doesn't show that part though.

How is that not using camera tricks? Criss cuts filming, replaces the regular tables with gimmicked ones and then starts filming again. What are you not getting?


Proof?


Ok. Then you clearly have no idea how a simple vanish like that is done. If you did you could spot the camera trick a mile away.


magikrn wrote:
Come on X, you know these haters can't ever show proof, only speculation. I understand that they probably are camera tricks, but who cares. The idea is to get more people interested in magic again and get the layfolk amazed. This effect can be done for a live audience, it just needs to be controlled more. I see no problem in him using a camera trick here because it is hiding the secret which if he had the tables set up from the get go, it would be easy to figure out. Since he changed them in with a little cut, it keeps the layfolk from suspecting anything, therefore people like you who call him out are the ones who are in the wrong because you are exposing his effect.


Are you on acid or what? First you say the "haters" don't have proof and can only speculate but then you agree that he is using camera tricks. And to make you look even dumber you agree with the fact that he is using a camera edit to switch tables.
I said probably a camera trick, not definately but the method could be done without a camera trick. The reason he may have done a camera trick was to hide the secret from someone with half a brain and a rewind button.
Here is my bit of mentalism. You are all under the age of 23, male, wanna be Criss Angel's that really have poor delivery and if Criss Angel admitted tomorrow on national tv that he uses camera tricks you would all say he must have been joking.Very wrong. I am 27, do not want to be Criss Angel and I know he uses camera tricks, but do not care. I am saying that in the vanish, it did NOT have to be a camera edit, only PROBABLY used one to hide the secret a bit from laymen(who you just exposed the effect to if they were reading this).


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