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How many sets?
1 4%  4%  [ 1 ]
2 4%  4%  [ 1 ]
3 63%  63%  [ 15 ]
4 21%  21%  [ 5 ]
6 4%  4%  [ 1 ]
7 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
8 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
9 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
10 or more 4%  4%  [ 1 ]
Total votes : 24
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 7:58 pm 
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If youre going to use a salt shaker, most effects require the shaker to be opened and emptied. That's a bad idea since the staff will need to refill the shaker with fresh salt EVERYTIME you use them - putting the old salt back in is unsanitary.

Nigromante: It's better not to inconvenience the people around you. You, as the outsider, should be self contained. Your interaction with a spectator should never inconvenience the operation of the restaurant - that's why you clear out when food arrives and that's another reason why you don't mess with their utensils.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 8:41 pm 
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I agree with you on the inconvenience thing, however, I don't like your idea of being an outsider. When I work a restaurant I try to promote the exact opposite. I want them to think of me as a part of their team, one of them. Things work much more smoothly that way. I agree emptying salt shakers would be bad, but using one as part of an effect wouldn't be. Also I wouldn't say mess with the cutlery on the table, carry your own, but I think a quick talk to management about the promotion potential in bent silverware would clear any concerns about that. Again, I hate the outsider idea, that's goign to result in a very short term contract with the establishment. They have to see you as one of them. You're not at the restaurant to make money, you're there to make the restaurant money. You just happen to get a cut for your services.

But I digress, and to return this to the original topic. I like a comment that was said earlier. In a restaurant I don't think in sets, I think in effects. I need to be able to amaze and pull out and any moment, do to things like the food coming, or the people getting out of hand, etc, etc. So just have a few solid effects you can use, and pull them out as need be. Of course there's a lot more to routining for a restaurant than that, but this isn't the time or place to go into a discourse on restaurant work.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 8:10 pm 
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Nigromante wrote:
I agree with you on the inconvenience thing, however, I don't like your idea of being an outsider. When I work a restaurant I try to promote the exact opposite. I want them to think of me as a part of their team, one of them. Things work much more smoothly that way. I agree emptying salt shakers would be bad, but using one as part of an effect wouldn't be. Also I wouldn't say mess with the cutlery on the table, carry your own, but I think a quick talk to management about the promotion potential in bent silverware would clear any concerns about that.

Carrying your own has been discussed and dismissed. It opens a can of worms and allows for the spectators to ask themselves too many questions - i.e. "There's silverware on the table, why is he carrying his own? Why doesn't he bend the stuff that's here now? His must be special."

Again, I hate the outsider idea, that's goign to result in a very short term contract with the establishment. They have to see you as one of them. You're not at the restaurant to make money, you're there to make the restaurant money. You just happen to get a cut for your services.

The idea of the magician being an outsider and hence requireing himself to be unobtrusive to the restaurant staff isn't my own. I saw the idea first presented in Jim Pace's Restaurant Worker's Handbook, again in The Restaurant Act by R. Paul Wilson, again in Making a Living Entertaining in Restaurants by Ruth Schooner and Peter Lansing, and in various other works.

It is one of the most basic rules of restaurant magic, not an idea I've constructed.



But I digress, and to return this to the original topic. I like a comment that was said earlier. In a restaurant I don't think in sets, I think in effects. I need to be able to amaze and pull out and any moment, do to things like the food coming, or the people getting out of hand, etc, etc. So just have a few solid effects you can use, and pull them out as need be. Of course there's a lot more to routining for a restaurant than that, but this isn't the time or place to go into a discourse on restaurant work.

That's why multi-phase and automatic reset effects are preferred for restaurants. Choices of effects and a short discussion on routine building was discussesd at the beginning of the thread.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 4:17 am 
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When I do anything with mentalism…
Especially metal bending I treat it like a levitation effect
If asked to do it again, I tell them its very strenuous and dangerous to perform more than once a night.
Unless they follow you… they won’t realize your doing it for other tables

I see your points….. Just adding mine


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 6:08 pm 
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forreststone wrote:
When I do anything with mentalism…
Especially metal bending I treat it like a levitation effect
If asked to do it again, I tell them its very strenuous and dangerous to perform more than once a night.
Unless they follow you… they won’t realize your doing it for other tables

I see your points….. Just adding mine


You mean unless they turn their head 45 degrees and see you at the next table, which many will.

That's the very reason we use multiple routines in a night at a restaurant, so the audience that likely watched you perform at the last table doensn't see the same routine again at their table.

Note: If you're doing mentalism in a restaurant, chances are your audience isn't going to have a hard time realizing that you're doing it at every table. If they see you move to another table, they will likely assume that you where lying: "If it's so strenuous, why are you still working? Why don't you go lie down."


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 6:33 pm 
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Yeah... remember... when you go to a table and do a rutine/set, and then go to another table... thay havent seen what you did earlyer.... so you actualy don't need more than 2 rutines... and maby more for your one happyness!

I have many rutines i do so on... but when i do tabel hopping.. i actualy only do 2-3 because i don't need more...

if maby some other table sees what you do at another tabel you can do some thing else to the other tabel again....


Kalle


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 11:19 pm 
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kallx wrote:
Yeah... remember... when you go to a table and do a rutine/set, and then go to another table... thay havent seen what you did earlyer.... so you actualy don't need more than 2 rutines... and maby more for your one happyness!

I have many rutines i do so on... but when i do tabel hopping.. i actualy only do 2-3 because i don't need more...

if maby some other table sees what you do at another tabel you can do some thing else to the other tabel again....


Kalle


Okay?
I understood very little of that.
The parts I did understand (in bold) where flat out stupid.

In response to BOLD area: Have you ever worked in a restaurant?
Seriously? Because the fact is, if people liked you they'll keep an eye on you as you go. Secondly, if you're doing your job well, people will see/hear you coming - and likely would have been watching you already. That's just common sense.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 3:42 am 
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dbaker_creator wrote:
kallx wrote:
Yeah... remember... when you go to a table and do a rutine/set, and then go to another table... thay havent seen what you did earlyer.... so you actualy don't need more than 2 rutines... and maby more for your one happyness!
I have many rutines i do so on... but when i do tabel hopping.. i actualy only do 2-3 because i don't need more...
if maby some other table sees what you do at another tabel you can do some thing else to the other tabel again....
Kalle

Okay?
I understood very little of that.
The parts I did understand (in bold) where flat out stupid.
In response to BOLD area: Have you ever worked in a restaurant?
Seriously? Because the fact is, if people liked you they'll keep an eye on you as you go. Secondly, if you're doing your job well, people will see/hear you coming - and likely would have been watching you already. That's just common sense.


I have been a non magician spectator in a restaurant, and the magician cam over to us, and did the same routine; he did for the previous table. Only he did it table in the corner of the room, the table behind that one, then the table next to the first one.
So we watched him do the table next to us, he moved to the one behind him, and then came to us, did the same routine but we didn’t care because we wanted to see the tricks he was doing to the other table.

But if you’re really worried about it, use 3 different sets of tricks and just go thru them like clock work that way no table would ever see the same one as before.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 4:57 am 
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forreststone wrote:
dbaker_creator wrote:
kallx wrote:
Yeah... remember... when you go to a table and do a rutine/set, and then go to another table... thay havent seen what you did earlyer.... so you actualy don't need more than 2 rutines... and maby more for your one happyness!
I have many rutines i do so on... but when i do tabel hopping.. i actualy only do 2-3 because i don't need more...
if maby some other table sees what you do at another tabel you can do some thing else to the other tabel again....
Kalle

Okay?
I understood very little of that.
The parts I did understand (in bold) where flat out stupid.
In response to BOLD area: Have you ever worked in a restaurant?
Seriously? Because the fact is, if people liked you they'll keep an eye on you as you go. Secondly, if you're doing your job well, people will see/hear you coming - and likely would have been watching you already. That's just common sense.


I have been a non magician spectator in a restaurant, and the magician cam over to us, and did the same routine; he did for the previous table. Only he did it table in the corner of the room, the table behind that one, then the table next to the first one.
So we watched him do the table next to us, he moved to the one behind him, and then came to us, did the same routine but we didn’t care because we wanted to see the tricks he was doing to the other table.

Okay? I don't know if you realize this, but your statement there proved my point.
You could map his movements through the room = you where watching him long before he got to your table and long afterward - hence why people do multiple routines. So, you have essentially proved yourself wrong.

This is why I like to see who has actually worked as a magician in a restaurant before they start dealing out advice. There is a huge difference between being a spectator for a magician in a restaurant and being the magician. Namely, if your the spectator, you have neither experience nor knowledge to give.

[/b]


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 6:01 am 
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Well I offered up no advice other than the advice you offered, sooooooooo you just wasted your time….
And another thing…. Magicians are so egotistical they forget one major thing about
Presentation.
IT DOES NOT MATTER WHAT YOU THINK IS A GOOD IDEA
When you are trying to impress laymen, it only matters what they think.
Like I said, before in another post you don’t pay attention

I said if your really worried about it have multiple sets, which I am pretty sure you said the same thing…………….which means I know I proved you right.

I SAID as a spectator
YOU are not a spectator and never will be, you are a magician and will always think like one
And watch like one.
A SPECTATOR VIEWS THINGS DIFFERENTLY.

I also said AS A SPECTATOR we did not care, he did the same routine???? Where is the advice?

A magician will think
I did trick A, B, C, D, E for this table now I need to do tricks F, G, H, I, and J for the next table
Where a spectator is thinking “man I hope he does tricks A, B, C, D, and E for us…..
Because even though he watched you do the tricks even if it was only from the next table over
He still did not experience what the other table did.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 3:51 pm 
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forreststone wrote:
Well I offered up no advice other than the advice you offered, sooooooooo you just wasted your time….
And another thing…. Magicians are so egotistical they forget one major thing about
Presentation.
IT DOES NOT MATTER WHAT YOU THINK IS A GOOD IDEA (if that isn't the ultimate show of ignorance, I don't know what is)


When experience says "this is a good/bad idea", yes it does matter. As I mentioned to you already, you are speaking from ONE experience as a laymen. From the way you write, I would guess that you are also fairly young, mix that with being a laymen and you probably wouldn't consider the issues I'm talking about. So in your case, yes the single set was effective.

Here's the other reason people use several routines: What about when people have seen you before? Should you do the same routine anyway? "Magic Cardinal Rule #2: Never repeat a trick for the same audience." The fact that you didn't think through this subject far enough to get to "What if it's a repeat audience?" speaks to your inexperience - and again, why you shouldn't be giving advise to others.



When you are trying to impress laymen, it only matters what they think.
Like I said, before in another post you don’t pay attention

I'm trying to pay attention, your posts simply aren't easy to read.

I said if your really worried about it have multiple sets, which I am pretty sure you said the same thing…………….which means I know I proved you right.

I SAID as a spectator
YOU are not a spectator and never will be, you are a magician and will always think like one
And watch like one.
A SPECTATOR VIEWS THINGS DIFFERENTLY.

A magician becomes a spectator when he doesn't know how a trick is done. I am a spectator often.

I also said AS A SPECTATOR we did not care, he did the same routine???? Where is the advice?

Again, a sinlge instance doesn't prove your point - especially when the most notable restaurant workers in the world all say that you're wrong. However, the fact that you could map the guy's movements proved mine.

YOU didn't care, but many spectators will care. That's something you'll learn when you have experience.


A magician will think
I did trick A, B, C, D, E for this table now I need to do tricks F, G, H, I, and J for the next table
Where a spectator is thinking “man I hope he does tricks A, B, C, D, and E for us…..
Because even though he watched you do the tricks even if it was only from the next table over
He still did not experience what the other table did.

Really? What are you drawing that conclusion from?
Go do the same trick for a group of people over and over again - how long was it before they got bored with you?


As I've said already, your comments drip with ignorance and inexperience. Get some experience and come back when you know something.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 5:11 pm 
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Again you just missed everything
I never said use one routine I never typed that, I said
YOU WERE RIGHT
I simply told you about ONE instant.
I never spoke about a repeat performance, but I can tell you if some one sees you doing a trick
From the Next table chances are they might want to see it up close.

If you happen upon a table of people you have seen before yea change the routine they don’t want to see something they have already seen up close.

I never said you were wrong…….
So how can the greatest performers of all time say I am wrong?
When we all agree?

You want to talk about dripping with ignorance you are trying to argue with a man who agrees with you 100% ……

About you being a spectator, you still aren’t looking at things the same way.
Double lifts, gimmicks, gaffed cards, sleights, misdirection. Everything about magic
Just about all spectators aren’t looking for them, you and I are
I am not a Laymen, I just said at that point I was.

The only reason I even brought anything up in the first place, was to simply state
That if you wanted to use one routine, it probably won’t make a huge difference.
And then I said
“If you are really worried about it use 3 sets.”


So what did I say in the end? USE 3 SETS
Now if you disagree with the 3 sets I will be happy to continue with you in this engagement

Otherwise sir, you and I have agreed this whole time........ You just wanted to use the word ignorant on some one and didn’t even read the post………………….obviously


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 5:22 pm 
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how many sets you do is reflected upon you memory.. the more you commit to memory the more sets you can do but beware that the more sets you commit to memory can possibly make you lose track of which tricks were for each set

i usually do 2-4


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