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 Post subject: David stone advice
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 4:02 am 
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I am looking in to purchasing a david stove dvd,ethir the real secrets of magic vol.one or two and was wondering if anyone anyone could give me some advice,like:
-what tricks you learn on vol.2
-is it worth getting
-if not what would you recremend

thanks
Landon


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 Post subject: Re: David stone advice
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 5:31 am 
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llarose wrote:
I am looking in to purchasing a david stove dvd,ethir the real secrets of magic vol.one or two and was wondering if anyone anyone could give me some advice,like:
-what tricks you learn on vol.2
-is it worth getting
-if not what would you recremend

thanks
Landon


I have no idea about how one "recremends" anything. As far as the David Stone DVDs I would not get them if I were you. Personally I enjoyed both and learned a lot from each of them, but as I have no way of know what you're interested in, or your level of ability, or your present knowledge of the art, I say don't even think of getting them yet. They are probably too advanced for you.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 5:52 am 
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born to perform.

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I don't have the DVDs myself; but since you are apparently just starting in restaurant magic, you should look into what kind of material works in restaurants.

Try to find books and other works on the subject.
Suggestions:
The Restaurant Worker's Handbook
Making a Living Entertaining in Restaurants


P.S. Paddy, on a 1/10 what did you think of the material (vol. 2), for your style? I was thinking about gettting them, but there really isn't any description.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 10:16 am 
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dbaker_creator wrote:
P.S. Paddy, on a 1/10 what did you think of the material (vol. 2), for your style? I was thinking about gettting them, but there really isn't any description.


Dbaker, I know your abilities well enough to tell you. For you on a 1 to 10 Vol 2 is at least a 12 or 13. He does some great stuff but I don't think they are for beginners. You are advaced so it would be great for you. Another really GREAT DVD is Rocco's new DVD "The Basics of Sleeving" Don't be fooled by the word "BASICS" in the title. It is NOT for beginners but for intermediate to advanced magicians it is totally invaluabe. When you're done learning the 1st volume you can actually perform Rocco's act that took 1st place in the FISM awards. It's a killer.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 11:09 pm 
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Landon,

If you want to get Stone's stuff - go for it. Whether you're "ready" or not, or whether it's "too advanced" for you is not for paddy to decide. (no one's ready in his eyes)

Go for it. I've studied Stone's info before and it's first rate. Beginner or not.

Robert


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 8:57 am 
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RobertBloor wrote:
Landon,

If you want to get Stone's stuff - go for it. Whether you're "ready" or not, or whether it's "too advanced" for you is not for paddy to decide. (no one's ready in his eyes)

Go for it. I've studied Stone's info before and it's first rate. Beginner or not.

Robert


Robert, you are wrong. A lot of people are ready in my eyes. However landon admits he is a beginner and Stone is not for beginners. Why lead someone into failure by getting them in way above there abilities.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 9:23 am 
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paddy wrote:
RobertBloor wrote:
Landon,

If you want to get Stone's stuff - go for it. Whether you're "ready" or not, or whether it's "too advanced" for you is not for paddy to decide. (no one's ready in his eyes)

Go for it. I've studied Stone's info before and it's first rate. Beginner or not.

Robert


Robert, you are wrong. A lot of people are ready in my eyes. However landon admits he is a beginner and Stone is not for beginners. Why lead someone into failure by getting them in way above there abilities.



Paddy,

That kind of thinking is short-sighted.

I studied Stone's stuff when I was a restaurant beginner. I did just fine with it.

It's not necessarily going to lead to failure. Failure happens for a multitude of reasons. I find it more likely material like what Stone presents might lead a beginner to rise to a higher standard of professionalism.

Robert


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 4:51 pm 
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BTW I still want to tell everybody to go to Robert's website and buy his new DVD on working the streets and festivals as a magician. It is THE BEST!! iformation on the subject from someone that I have a deep respect for. I don't always agree with Robert, but I really do respect him.

Now to argue: Robert, you've been a pro longer than 10 years I thought.
You give more credit to kids than I do, I will admit that. I don't see a lot of the kids willing to put in the time that we did to get good enough to perform in public.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 5:34 pm 
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paddy wrote:
BTW I still want to tell everybody to go to Robert's website and buy his new DVD on working the streets and festivals as a magician. It is THE BEST!! iformation on the subject from someone that I have a deep respect for. I don't always agree with Robert, but I really do respect him.

Now to argue: Robert, you've been a pro longer than 10 years I thought.
You give more credit to kids than I do, I will admit that. I don't see a lot of the kids willing to put in the time that we did to get good enough to perform in public.


Now that last part of your statement I'm with 110% - you're right. Not many folks put much time in at all anymore.

Call it fall out from the Blaine/Angel era that showed us magic could be simple, up close and on tv - with the same silly effects we ourselves by for $10 from the magic shop.

Unfortunately the fallout was grasshoppers who didn't think much practice was necessary and a world where "Blaining" was the new term for "walk around" magic.

Go figure.

Paddy - I give you crap. I know it. You know it. And I'm giving you crap about the "not ready" stuff because I see a certain futility in your thinking.

How can one become "ready" to perform without "performing" and learning where one screws up?

I understand your desire to encourage these kids to practice, learn, revamp their show and perfect what they're doing. But at some point, they've got to get out there and try.

Those that can, do.
Those that can't, won't do it for very long.

I don't think we've got anything to worry about.

Robert

PS: The reason I give a lot of credit to kids is because that's where I started. I was only 16 when I did my first show. There were a handful of folks around magic message boards who took me seriously - I'd be a hypocrite if I just dogged every kid with a desire to learn magic. (Though I've been guilty of this in the past a few times. Not my proudest moments that's for sure.)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 10:31 pm 
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Robert wrote
Quote:
PS: The reason I give a lot of credit to kids is because that's where I started. I was only 16 when I did my first show.


AHHH, That's the difference! I started learning magic when I was 54 yrs old. My group of adults were taught to learn, perfect our abilities and then when the "old guys" retired or died we were going to take their place. Well we did just what we were taught, then when the old guys went, instead of US taking their place, some kid, younger than my own kids, just out of college became our boss. We had to teach him the right way to do things if they would listen, which they rarely did. Our different backgrounds are showing thru on this one. I'll concede. But on those posts loaded with grammar errors and misspellings, I'll scream at!

Paddy


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 8:09 am 
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paddy wrote:
Robert wrote
Quote:
PS: The reason I give a lot of credit to kids is because that's where I started. I was only 16 when I did my first show.


AHHH, That's the difference! I started learning magic when I was 54 yrs old. My group of adults were taught to learn, perfect our abilities and then when the "old guys" retired or died we were going to take their place. Well we did just what we were taught, then when the old guys went, instead of US taking their place, some kid, younger than my own kids, just out of college became our boss. We had to teach him the right way to do things if they would listen, which they rarely did. Our different backgrounds are showing thru on this one. I'll concede. But on those posts loaded with grammar errors and misspellings, I'll scream at!

Paddy


See, paddy, I knew we could find common ground. Even if it is grammatical common ground. My wife the school teacher rolls her eyes at most of what I produce in the promo department. Good thing for her or 100% of my product would contain spelling errors.

I think how the arts are perceived, and executed, has changed very much since your day growing up. You're right in that it used to be a master/apprentice type relationship. Not to the extent that Zen masters used to teach, but that at the very least, one would become well educated by someone who had been there and done that before they'd ever so much as print a business card.

I think our current society is in a crash course with destruction of live theater. It's been on its way out for a long time.

I also give society some credit. I think we're cyclical. It won't be long now before we've come full circle to where live theater is sought after and respected, while our performers do that right thing, learning from the masters and understanding the full depth of how and why a performance is, before starting their own act.

Glad you and I can come to some consensus here. Now I understand a bit more of why you say, "you're not ready" stuff with great regularity. It's not to be snooty, but possibly, to encourage the kids to keep working at it.

Fair enough.
Thanks, paddy.
Robert


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 1:01 am 
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Back to the topic at hand, I would say go for the David Stone vids. Yes, a lot of the effects are going to be tough, in fact I've been toiling over a few myself lately (and I've been doing this a looooooooong time). But there are some achievable effects that I think a dedicated beginner could do with practice (like the rose effect in vol. 1).

Besides, the David Stone vids come packed with TONS of great advice about working in restaurant magic, which I'd say is valuable to ANYONE interested in working that venue, reguardless of skill level. Also, his vids are just fun too watch and give you a great example of very good presentational skills are well as good sleight of hand.

Give em a go!

B


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 1:49 am 
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Thanks for the advice everyone, I just got a job as a resturaunt magician at a local Red Robbins!!!! and a special thanks to paddy and robert for there expert advice.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 2:23 am 
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dbaker_creator wrote:
Suggestions:
The Restaurant Worker's Handbook


Which just became available again two days ago, after being out of print for I think at least a year/possibly more.

8)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 3:59 pm 
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Dose any one know where I would find the real secerets of magic VOL.1 by David Stone


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