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PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 1:01 pm 
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Joined: 22 Sep 2003
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True, but your daughter also has YOU as financial back up. :) Luckily she does not have to reply on magic for a living yet. I did free shows all the way up until I was 16 because I had to get my name out there and establish myself to get the income I generate today. It was along hard road, but a very educating fullfiling one. But kids can afford to do it more as opposed to a working adult pro who relies on the income to survive. But you go to start somewhere.


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 Post subject: Vent
PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 3:09 pm 
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born to perform.

Joined: 04 Aug 2003
Posts: 2171
Location: Loveland,Ohio (Cincy)
Rono,
How long have you been doing Vent? Have you ever attended the Vent Haven Convention?


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 Post subject: Trolling for vents!
PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 4:05 pm 
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Joined: 20 Feb 2008
Posts: 188
Hi Sluggo..Nice to meet you..I'm starting to see how one needs extreme patience sometimes in dealing with some of the inexperienced young magic people.
Therefore, I now see why you and the tuner from Saskatchewan have to count to a thousand slowly.
Sluggo, I was at Vent Haven last year. I have been doing vent for three years so I have another five years to go before I lose my rookie status.
My figure is Axtell's Floyd..I also have the Axtell chimp., although I can't figure out a character yet for the ape.
I've been able to marry my two careers(writer) and child instructor) along with a few decades of news gathering for vent.
I really enjoyed Vent Haven(did NOT like the dead terrorist skit) and my hero is the legendary Ronn Lucas who Is my favorite live performer. At the New Year's Eve show at Fort Jackson last summer I was blown away by the MC for the Open Mike(how he uses plane barf bags for vent) and the woman in the New Year's show who had her figure yodellng, drinking water etc. In fact, the benefit of an international convention is that when one sees the best in the world, one realizes the standard one must aim for. Again hope to see you in July..we''ll talk later. Ron0


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 Post subject: '
PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 9:47 pm 
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born to perform.

Joined: 04 Aug 2003
Posts: 2171
Location: Loveland,Ohio (Cincy)
I'm sure we passed at the Vent Haven last year. This year we'll meet up there maybe exchange Cell numbers before hand.
To date I have the Axtell Vern(bird) Willie(kid) Turtle(Tucker) Book and the drawing board.
I also have an older gent not from Axtell's. I want to get the story teller real bad though, he's my favorite.
What State are you from? I'm very lucky the Vent Haven is so close to me it does make it convenient.
YES! it's very frustrating to have so many kids who thinks because they do some card tricks they are now magicians. Some Parent will see that they do card magic and asks them to do their kids party- not knowing themself what it takes to actually put on a Kids show and these goofs accepts and then gets on here and wants everyone to give them a show. I don't answer them much anymore, it doesn't do any good. The good thing about it once they do that one show that they don't have you never hear from them again.
Which means they bombed and found out that cards doen't make you an entertainer.
It's good to have another serious entertainer on this section. As you may have noticed this is the only section that does have people that is serious and passionate about what we do.
It takes many months to just find out what is involved then another several months to get a show together. The good thing about it, we don't sugar coat anything. The wannabie's gets shut down real quick. Although there has been a few who will come on and really wants to know where they can start. Then you see all the real deals trip over each other to help them.
Welcome.
Mike


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 Post subject: C'mon Steve..put up a bullletin board!
PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 8:20 am 
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Joined: 20 Feb 2008
Posts: 188
Since last summer I've been trying to get Steve or Mark Wade to agree to put up a bulletin board so we can find each other. The best spot last July was the Canadian room..incredible styles of mostly ales. I'd like to meet the race driver from Alberta who used to race with Nikki Lauda; the constabulary captain from a northern state(maybe Ohio) and then the guys I had supper with at night. Ribbons is the second easiest to spot since her hair is always done in ribbons
Vent/magician Tony Borders does a lot with the bird..he is top notch at idea sessions and uses a change bag and the bird's beak. At present he's auditioning short people candidates for his annual trip this summer from California up to the IFEST convention.
Sluggo, REALLY good resource to give you the guts of a routine..so generous..also three pickles short of a full jar!
Whoops the tour director is about..time for the morning walk.
Later.Ron0


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 11:58 am 
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Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Posts: 338
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
I would say with respect to free shows, nobody has to know they're free except you and the event organizer you are working with. Awhile ago after a free show, I was approached by another person not involved with the event to do a show at one of their events (he worked with an organization as was partially involved in getting entertainers for an upcoming event) and they were asking about prices.

A tip when performing for free, try to get as much advertising as possible. Event organizers shouldn't mind helping you out as you're helping them out.


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 Post subject: edited damner of an idea
PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 5:32 am 
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Joined: 20 Feb 2008
Posts: 188
Sneak, your suggestion has been percolating for a day or so. Would you please elaborate on your freebie publicity ideas an owner can help with?
As they say in some country,"these truths are self-evident' but all the great ideas I had in February are due this week and I'm a little fried.

My favorite head banger this weekend is an old genealogical expert who is proof reading the second edition of a thing I wrote on we Micks in 2000. "Rono, I know there are a few mistakes on some of the tombstone inscriptions(she's had it for four weeks)." "Hey, great Theresa, on which pages?" "Lord, young man I can't keep up with it..I surely can't find time to read all those pages!"
Put on helmet..bang head on kitchen table"

As my dispatcher says, "You gotta love seniors!' By the way, I do. :D
ron0


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 8:49 am 
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Joined: 24 Jan 2003
Posts: 4110
Location: Milford OH
Sneak does make sense, except it is wrong. Remember these fundraisers all know each other and they talk. So if your act draws in people and that helps them get money, they tell others. They also tell them "hey, he is a GREAT guy because he volunteers his work." They also make it a point to tell the crowds that "all entertainment is donated! So all the money you give goes to the children (or whatever the cause is.)" That pretty much tells the world that your fee is "FREE."

I am not saying do not do charity shows. There is an organization that I will turn down a paying show to do a free show for them. There are other "charity" organizations like the (censored) that pay their own people LARGE sums of money but want me to do a free show. The minimum I charge then is $5000 per hour.

My whole point when I started this is: do NOT expect to get a paying show by doing freebies.


Last edited by paddy on Sun Mar 16, 2008 3:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 3:29 pm 
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Penguin

Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Posts: 338
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Doing free shows is w/o a doubt, a touchy subject. IMO, no 'yes' or 'no' is the right or wrong answer in performing free shows. For every positive reason to perform a free show, it can be countered with a negative reason to not perform a free show. And vice-verca.

PADDY makes a great point in that you may become know as the 'magician who does free shows.'

At the same time, a free show can give you great promotion via posters for the event, tv/newspaper coverage, etc..... And providing there is an honest agreement between the promoter and yourself that no one knows you are doing a free show, it could work to your advantage. And you should stress to the promoter that you are willing to perform a free show as you have a personal feeling with this charity for whatever reason (kid's hospital, cancer charity, etc......).

Of course, if you are already big, then a simple donation of your time (everybody can know it's a free show) to a charity that you believe in can be a great thing as well (something some pros do).

However, another important point PADDY makes is that if the charity event has alot of money to pay people for their event, then doing a free show for them would not be wise since they have money to pay you.

Another thing you may offer a charity event is a reduced price. I know some do this so that it doesn't end up being a free show but a reduced priced show so as to help out the event as much as possible financially wise.

I know another one or two respected posters here in the kids forum that also believe in free shows for pretty much the reasons I listed above. I had a thread awhile ago on this very subject so one can probably dig it up (not necessarily reply but just to read) and see many others on what they say on the subject.


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 Post subject: thanks for the peek, sneak
PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 4:36 pm 
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Joined: 20 Feb 2008
Posts: 188
Thanks Paddy for the reaction. Obviously Sneak can quite handle him/her self.
Sneak you wrote, "At the same time, a free show can give you great promotion via posters for the event, tv/newspaper coverage, etc...."
I had an uncle who was a cowboy up in Albert and he'd say, "gotcha". And I do.
By the way, what an interesting pen name..sneak...are you a sneak?
If you have business cards up there does it mean your info has to be French on the top and twice the size of the English below?
Thanks, ron0


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 Post subject: '
PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 10:49 pm 
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born to perform.

Joined: 04 Aug 2003
Posts: 2171
Location: Loveland,Ohio (Cincy)
I think all of us that do a large volume of shows always gets the phone calls to do charity work. Like Paddy said lots of people at these charity events are making big money themselves.
I do a lot of stuff for the Shriners hospital here in Cincy. Everything is free I.E. parades, visits to the hospital fund raisers etc.
I have on an occassion given a free BD party to help raise money (Twice).
I do some reduced prices for things but even that is limited. Most of those are in my Community though.
If it makes you feel better to help then do it by all means. Money isn't always the main thing for some people. I don't do this fulltime so I can afford to do these reduced shows.
It's what makes you feel good to do it then go with it. I can see Sneaks ideas on getting some ink time in the papers, because the media flocks to these events.
Last year I made it on the front page of my Community paper at an event(reduced). Of course all the kids on the football team I coach came up at practice with a copy (parents gave) to get a autograph from Coach Sluggo. The Parents were getting a good laugh out of it.
My two cents!


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 Post subject: Re: thanks for the peek, sneak
PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 10:42 am 
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Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Posts: 338
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
rono wrote:
Thanks Paddy for the reaction. Obviously Sneak can quite handle him/her self.
Sneak you wrote, "At the same time, a free show can give you great promotion via posters for the event, tv/newspaper coverage, etc...."
I had an uncle who was a cowboy up in Albert and he'd say, "gotcha". And I do.
By the way, what an interesting pen name..sneak...are you a sneak?
If you have business cards up there does it mean your info has to be French on the top and twice the size of the English below?
Thanks, ron0
I'm not too sure where you're going with this but it sounds a little combatitive.

If you're having trouble with the idea that I believe in free shows for only a 'very few limited reasons,' but that I also understand the cons of performing free shows, then we'll have to just agree to disagree like everybody did in the other thread on the subject.


Just an important side note, I have NEVER done a free show that took work away from a full time or part time working pro. Any show I did had no money for any performers and it was all a 'volunteer' show. Taking work away from a full/part time working pro (especially the ones making a living off of it) for your free show is wrong.



Should also add this in: SLUGGO'S post above is a great read on the subject.


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 Post subject: mea culpa
PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 1:51 pm 
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Joined: 20 Feb 2008
Posts: 188
Sorry sneak for being too forward. I'm the one who believes in free shows for 4 to 6 year olds in isolated areas who would never have vent/illusions. in their lifetimes. Anyone who wants a paying show would be directed to the only party clown for a long way in this area .
The shows are done for educational purposes not for remuneration or being part of the entertainment scene. Did that..I was lucky it worked out and am merely one lowering the hills and filling the valleys for magicians who do it for a living.
Again I apologize for lighting your fuse. :)
ron0


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 3:21 pm 
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born to perform.

Joined: 18 Aug 2004
Posts: 2576
Location: Ituna, Saskatchewan, Canada
Although I also believe in doing what I can to make magic accessible to those who might not otherwise have the opportunity to see a live magician, I try to avoid completely free shows whenever possible. Even if the show per se is "free," I charge travel costs or accept a nominal honorarium or something.

For charity events, I will sometimes work out a sort of fee/donation swap with the client. They write me a cheque for $X, I give them a receipt for $X; I write them a cheque for $X as a donation to their cause; they give me a tax receipt for a charitable donation of $X. They got a magic show; I got a tax write-off. Everybody's happy.


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 Post subject: silk smooth
PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 6:26 pm 
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Joined: 20 Feb 2008
Posts: 188
Now isn't that smooth in the land of sane medical benefits!
Caffienator, for so much of my life, everything was commercial. Now it's not. you are a magician..I'm just a five and dimer with a hobby.
As Peggy Lee sang, "the thrill is gone." Hustling for this and that is over..reaching thousands of people in one sentence is over.
I've returned to my lake; my bush lot ,my wild turkeys. and wolves.
I drive seniors and am genuinely pleased at a two dollar tip..twice I've got ten.
We travel internationally and once a week I do a little show for junior and senior kindergartens in various rural nurseries. Whatever I can do for my fellow magicians is my little way of thanking the gods for my shot at the gold ring.
I am a skilled and experienced at promotion and in this small way I'm trying to sow an interest in people for vent and basic illusions.
ron0


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