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 Post subject: Illegal Money
PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 11:55 pm 
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Joined: 10 Mar 2008
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Hey guys!

I was just wondering, does anyone know if it's it legal for magic companies to make imitation notes/coins?

I find it hard to beleive that a pen-thru-dollar-bill note or magnetic quarter would be legal to produce, at the very least I'd expect you could get in trouble for defacing money, if not counterfeiting.

Please correct me if I'm wrong though,

~ Pingumagic


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 12:13 am 
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born to perform.

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I believe most of them are made from actual coins. Certain items would be excluded from counterfieting charges entirely (shell coins, jumbo coins, etc).

As for defacing money: When has ANYONE been prosecuted for that?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 12:17 am 
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born to perform.

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this is my personal opinion, i could be wrong but, gimmicked coin/money magic is legal. The the thing is, it is gimmicked, so you are paying more for the trick then the money is worth, so you won't spend it.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 12:26 am 
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Bluebackedcards wrote:
this is my personal opinion, i could be wrong but, gimmicked coin/money magic is legal. The the thing is, it is gimmicked, so you are paying more for the trick then the money is worth, so you won't spend it.


That doesn't make it legal.
If you spend $1,000,000 to rob a bank and you only steal $50 - is it still illegal?

It's illegal if the coin/bill could pass for a real one = counterfieting.
Coin shells can't since they are shells - unless you're a total idiot, you can determine the difference between a real coin and a shell.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 12:28 am 
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You'll probably find it's technically illegal but in a court case the fact that you were producing a coin for a legitimate purpose and that the coin wasn't going to be passed would probably get you an exemption for prosecution.

Most countries tend to have many laws where things are technically illegal but you can do things because they let you get away with it, rather than creating loopholes that people could abuse. It means the law can clamp down if the need arises.

Otherwise you can imagine the kind of forgery cases you would have:
"Honest y'honor, I printed the 300 million in bills for, errr.... magical purposes."


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 6:56 am 
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The gimmicks that I know of are created from actual coins for the most part. There are exceptions, but those are obvious. Also, technically, I do believe that it is illegal to make those gimmicks, but it's not a law that is enforced. If I remember correctly, even writing on money is considered defacing it and is illegal. Yet, it's not a law that is enforced.


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 Post subject: defacing money
PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:46 am 
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I was at Kings Island in Cinci and the explanation of this very discussion was printed right on the side of every coin press they have.

Basically, defacing money just for the sake of defacing it is illegal. However, if there is a true purpose to the defacing, it is perfectly legal.

In their case you put a quarter into the machine and it's run through a press that restamps it with a picture from the theme park. It has just served the purpose of being a souvineer.

Gaffing coins and bills serves the purpose of creating beautiful illusions....hence, perfectly legal.


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 Post subject: Re: Illegal Money
PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 12:35 pm 
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pingumagic wrote:
Hey guys!

I was just wondering, does anyone know if it's it legal for magic companies to make imitation notes/coins?

I find it hard to beleive that a pen-thru-dollar-bill note ...


To begin with, a "pen-thru-dollar-bill note" is not gimmicked, the Pen is.

Second, if it were illegal to alter coins for magical purposes, don't you think we'd heard of it before now ? ...
... I mean, trick coins have been made for many decades now, and to my knowledge no one has ever heard of anyone ever being prosecuted for it !


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 1:55 pm 
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The same thing goes for makers of jewlery! The jewler can change the coin by putting a hole in the coin for a chain ect....


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 Post subject: Re: Illegal Money
PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 5:29 pm 
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Frijid_Pink wrote:
pingumagic wrote:
Hey guys!

I was just wondering, does anyone know if it's it legal for magic companies to make imitation notes/coins?

I find it hard to beleive that a pen-thru-dollar-bill note ...


To begin with, a "pen-thru-dollar-bill note" is not gimmicked, the Pen is.

Second, if it were illegal to alter coins for magical purposes, don't you think we'd heard of it before now ? ...
... I mean, trick coins have been made for many decades now, and to my knowledge no one has ever heard of anyone ever being prosecuted for it !


It's not just magical purposes, I'm pretty sure anything you do to money that can't be reversed is illegal but not enforced.

And second, I've heard of gimmicked notes before.


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 Post subject: Re: Illegal Money
PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 5:41 pm 
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pingumagic wrote:
Frijid_Pink wrote:
pingumagic wrote:
Hey guys!

I was just wondering, does anyone know if it's it legal for magic companies to make imitation notes/coins?

I find it hard to beleive that a pen-thru-dollar-bill note ...


To begin with, a "pen-thru-dollar-bill note" is not gimmicked, the Pen is.

Second, if it were illegal to alter coins for magical purposes, don't you think we'd heard of it before now ? ...
... I mean, trick coins have been made for many decades now, and to my knowledge no one has ever heard of anyone ever being prosecuted for it !


It's not just magical purposes, I'm pretty sure anything you do to money that can't be reversed is illegal but not enforced.

And second, I've heard of gimmicked notes before.


They are typically made from regular bills - not fakes.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 5:49 pm 
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Joined: 24 Jun 2006
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Here is the official law:

Quote:
“Whoever mutilates, cuts, defaces, disfigures, or perforates, or
unites or cements together, or does any other thing to any bank bill,
draft, note, or other evidence of debt issued by any national banking
association, or Federal Reserve bank, or the Federal Reserve System,
with intent to render such bank bill, draft, note, or other evidence
of debt unfit to be reissued, shall be fined under this title or
imprisoned not more than six months, or both.”
So yes, gimmicking a coin is illegal. Gimmicking money is also illegal. It's simply not enforced.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 1:42 am 
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If it was enforced, our coin and money magic would be in some deep do-do. :lol:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 2:27 am 
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The funny thing is if one police officer took five minutes to go down to the E hq he could cost them thousands of dollars :lol: .


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 2:31 am 
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pingumagic wrote:
The funny thing is if one police officer took five minutes to go down to the E hq he could cost them thousands of dollars :lol: .


It would need to be a secret service agent - as they are the folks that handle money matters.

I think that's largely why they never prosecute people for it, they have other things to do.

Protect the President vs. stop people from writing on money = ?


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