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PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 2:26 am 
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Yeah but I speak of the term "professional" by what it actually entails, not what kids want it to be. Not only are they legally not able to be professionals, they do not have the skills I listed previously or the experience to be one. If you go to a dentist or a doctor, would you hire one about age 50 with 30 years of experience, or a teenager who does it occasionally and is just starting out and has no real experience?

Would you hire a lawyer to represent you that is similar in age and experience, or would you hire a 14-year old who studies "some law" online? The answer is easy. Luckily the law prevents the 14-year old from having a business legally. I was technically ready to go pro around age 10 after 3 years of experience, but I couldn't legally. Sure I did part-time gigs here and there, but that is not the same as earning a livelihood through magic entirely. It is very difficult , and I spent 10 solid years developing and building my business.

So you can see why I get a laugh every time some 14-year says he is a professional. Usually after his 1 hour birthday party for his cousin, and earning $20 in tips. Then has to go to bed by 9pm for middle school the next day, and so his parents can bring home the real bacon that actually allows him to stay living; and get more "tricks."


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 11:29 am 
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sirbrad wrote:
Yeah but I speak of the term "professional" by what it actually entails, not what kids want it to be. Not only are they legally not able to be professionals, they do not have the skills I listed previously or the experience to be one. If you go to a dentist or a doctor, would you hire one about age 50 with 30 years of experience, or a teenager who does it occasionally and is just starting out and has no real experience?

Would you hire a lawyer to represent you that is similar in age and experience, or would you hire a 14-year old who studies "some law" online? The answer is easy. Luckily the law prevents the 14-year old from having a business legally. I was technically ready to go pro around age 10 after 3 years of experience, but I couldn't legally. Sure I did part-time gigs here and there, but that is not the same as earning a livelihood through magic entirely. It is very difficult , and I spent 10 solid years developing and building my business.

So you can see why I get a laugh every time some 14-year says he is a professional. Usually after his 1 hour birthday party for his cousin, and earning $20 in tips. Then has to go to bed by 9pm for middle school the next day, and so his parents can bring home the real bacon that actually allows him to stay living; and get more "tricks."



LOL, that made me laugh, and i really needed one, thanks. Interesting points and rather amusing.
I was making a fair bit of money before i was 14 doing acting but i doubt i would have called myself a professional actor.
I did start to make a lot of money as a magician when i was 16 and on from there but of course when i look back i cringe and say "I cannot believe i was doing those tricks" or whatever but that is a good sign to show we have improved , like you said earlier about yourself looking back.

I certainly hope i do not get to an age where i look back and say "That was me at my best".

But you are taking your own personal stance when it comes to YOUR hiring perspective. Maybe you wouldn't hire a magician without those 'credentials' , maybe i wouldn't either, but plenty do and plenty pay good money. Maybe they are silly or maybe they think they are getting their money's worth, either way, they still hand it over.

Oh well.... C'est la vie


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 8:38 pm 
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Incognito wrote
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But you are taking your own personal stance when it comes to YOUR hiring perspective. Maybe you wouldn't hire a magician without those 'credentials' , maybe i wouldn't either, but plenty do and plenty pay good money. Maybe they are silly or maybe they think they are getting their money's worth, either way, they still hand it over.


The problem is when people hire kids and pay good money for a show then the kid puts on a bad show. The person doesn't think "well he is a rotten magician." They think "That's THE LAST magician I will ever hire! They're all bad entertainers!"

A bad act hurts all of us. When we perform we represent every magician. We follow the greats and the not so greats but we represent every one of us. If I do a lousy show, all of us get a bad reputation not just myself.

Paddy


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 11:07 am 
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paddy wrote:
Incognito wrote
Quote:
But you are taking your own personal stance when it comes to YOUR hiring perspective. Maybe you wouldn't hire a magician without those 'credentials' , maybe i wouldn't either, but plenty do and plenty pay good money. Maybe they are silly or maybe they think they are getting their money's worth, either way, they still hand it over.


The problem is when people hire kids and pay good money for a show then the kid puts on a bad show. The person doesn't think "well he is a rotten magician." They think "That's THE LAST magician I will ever hire! They're all bad entertainers!"

A bad act hurts all of us. When we perform we represent every magician. We follow the greats and the not so greats but we represent every one of us. If I do a lousy show, all of us get a bad reputation not just myself.

Paddy


I FULLY agree. I would be angry if I had to do a show somewhere right after another magician that totally bombed.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 11:25 am 
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I will first admit that I only read the first page, and the last before responding....

However, it very much reminded me of a lecture given by Mark Mason that our family went to. He said that there were a lot better technical magicians out there than him, but that he gets the jobs because he is an entertainer, and he knows how to make the client happy. He really stressed the entertainment value of being a magician and I think that is some of the best advice I have heard at ANY lecture I have gone to, and we've been to a fair number of them.

On a side note I just have to tease my friend Sirbrad about his comment,
Quote:
So you can see why I get a laugh every time some 14-year says he is a professional. Usually after his 1 hour birthday party for his cousin, and earning $20 in tips. Then has to go to bed by 9pm for middle school the next day, and so his parents can bring home the real bacon that actually allows him to stay living; and get more "tricks."


There are some kids out there that really can put on a quality magic show whether it be public venue or a private kid show and still make "real" money at it and have happy clients when they leave! ;)

Although, I do know what you are saying. The majority of kids do not understand the time, dedication, and the bigger picture of being a true performer and running it as a business. Although admittedly, the money she earns goes into her college fund and mommie and daddy do buy/build her props for her--- the benefit of having parents that love magic as much as she does!


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 2:34 pm 
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kristenl wrote:
I will first admit that I only read the first page, and the last before responding....

However, it very much reminded me of a lecture given by Mark Mason that our family went to. He said that there were a lot better technical magicians out there than him, but that he gets the jobs because he is an entertainer, and he knows how to make the client happy. He really stressed the entertainment value of being a magician and I think that is some of the best advice I have heard at ANY lecture I have gone to, and we've been to a fair number of them.

On a side note I just have to tease my friend Sirbrad about his comment,
Quote:
So you can see why I get a laugh every time some 14-year says he is a professional. Usually after his 1 hour birthday party for his cousin, and earning $20 in tips. Then has to go to bed by 9pm for middle school the next day, and so his parents can bring home the real bacon that actually allows him to stay living; and get more "tricks."


There are some kids out there that really can put on a quality magic show whether it be public venue or a private kid show and still make "real" money at it and have happy clients when they leave! ;)

Although, I do know what you are saying. The majority of kids do not understand the time, dedication, and the bigger picture of being a true performer and running it as a business. Although admittedly, the money she earns goes into her college fund and mommie and daddy do buy/build her props for her--- the benefit of having parents that love magic as much as she does!
I agree. I think that most do say they are proffesional when they don't even know what that is but there are some that are true proffesionals.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 3:10 pm 
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kristenl wrote:
I will first admit that I only read the first page, and the last before responding....

However, it very much reminded me of a lecture given by Mark Mason that our family went to. He said that there were a lot better technical magicians out there than him, but that he gets the jobs because he is an entertainer, and he knows how to make the client happy. He really stressed the entertainment value of being a magician and I think that is some of the best advice I have heard at ANY lecture I have gone to, and we've been to a fair number of them.

On a side note I just have to tease my friend Sirbrad about his comment,
Quote:
So you can see why I get a laugh every time some 14-year says he is a professional. Usually after his 1 hour birthday party for his cousin, and earning $20 in tips. Then has to go to bed by 9pm for middle school the next day, and so his parents can bring home the real bacon that actually allows him to stay living; and get more "tricks."


There are some kids out there that really can put on a quality magic show whether it be public venue or a private kid show and still make "real" money at it and have happy clients when they leave! ;)

Although, I do know what you are saying. The majority of kids do not understand the time, dedication, and the bigger picture of being a true performer and running it as a business. Although admittedly, the money she earns goes into her college fund and mommie and daddy do buy/build her props for her--- the benefit of having parents that love magic as much as she does!


Yeah there are "some" but I already pointed out in the past they are extreme exceptions, I was one of them. Also most that age do not have that kind of parental support. However you have some kids here claiming to be full-time professionals all on their own, which is nothing but lies. Many kids can do shows with parental support, but would never be able to take on the business aspects all by themselves.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 5:20 pm 
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sirbrad wrote:
kristenl wrote:
I will first admit that I only read the first page, and the last before responding....

However, it very much reminded me of a lecture given by Mark Mason that our family went to. He said that there were a lot better technical magicians out there than him, but that he gets the jobs because he is an entertainer, and he knows how to make the client happy. He really stressed the entertainment value of being a magician and I think that is some of the best advice I have heard at ANY lecture I have gone to, and we've been to a fair number of them.

On a side note I just have to tease my friend Sirbrad about his comment,
Quote:
So you can see why I get a laugh every time some 14-year says he is a professional. Usually after his 1 hour birthday party for his cousin, and earning $20 in tips. Then has to go to bed by 9pm for middle school the next day, and so his parents can bring home the real bacon that actually allows him to stay living; and get more "tricks."


There are some kids out there that really can put on a quality magic show whether it be public venue or a private kid show and still make "real" money at it and have happy clients when they leave! ;)

Although, I do know what you are saying. The majority of kids do not understand the time, dedication, and the bigger picture of being a true performer and running it as a business. Although admittedly, the money she earns goes into her college fund and mommie and daddy do buy/build her props for her--- the benefit of having parents that love magic as much as she does!


Yeah there are "some" but I already pointed out in the past they are extreme exceptions, I was one of them. Also most that age do not have that kind of parental support. However you have some kids here claiming to be full-time professionals all on their own, which is nothing but lies. Many kids can do shows with parental support, but would never be able to take on the business aspects all by themselves.


Sirbrad, I hate the fact that you say that. So the parents can bring home the real bacon and buy you more tricks? I don't know anyone my age who does magic whose parents actually buy them tricks. I also found it fairly offensive with the 9pm middle school comment. One hour birthday party for his cousin?

And you laugh every time some 14 year old says he or she is a proffesional? David Copperfield says that he has been a proffesional magician ever since the age of twelve. Danny Garcia says 14. You have no idea what you are talking about.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 6:09 pm 
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Don't use words you can't spell. I think I know what I am talking about being I am a full-time professional, and have been for 20 years now. Again, look up the meaning "professional" once you learned how it is spelled. It doesn't matter who says they are a professional, unless they are at least 16 and earn the majority of their income through magic, technically it is a lie.

I think I was dead on with my middle analogy. Like I said the truth is not always pretty. I am sure one day when you are actually an adult and the magic stage has passed you by, you will see how ridiculous you sound now. I did shows too from age 7-15, but I still did not claim to be a full-time professional. Mainly because I knew a few and seen the work and dedication involved, which at the time was way beyond me.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 6:20 pm 
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Popchris wrote:
I don't know anyone my age who does magic whose parents actually buy them tricks.


I do, I have heard many that age claim to use their parent's credit card. They may earn allowance for doing chores, but are not making a good living with magic legally, and most likely not illegally either. I would bet on it. Welcome to reality. It doesn't mean that you are not good at magic, it just means you are not earning a living, and making it on your own with magic at age 14.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 6:41 pm 
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sirbrad wrote:
Popchris wrote:
I don't know anyone my age who does magic whose parents actually buy them tricks.


I do, I have heard many that age claim to use their parent's credit card. They may earn allowance for doing chores, but are not making a good living with magic legally, and most likely not illegally either. I would bet on it. Welcome to reality. It doesn't mean that you are not good at magic, it just means you are not earning a living, and making it on your own with magic at age 14.


I don't make allowance. And I never said that these people were claiming to be "full time proffesionals".


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 10:52 pm 
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I think that there are two discriptions going on here. I think Popchris mean's that he knows people who preform magic professionally. They buy there own effect's, present them well and work for money. On the other hand you have Sirbrad who mean's Profesional Magician's. These are people who actually preform for a living and all of there income is from magic. Here you are both right but have things that are completely different.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 8:29 pm 
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Yes. There IS a difference between a "Professional Magician" and a "Paid Amateur". These 14 year olds who claim to be a professional are, in reality, a paid amateur.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 8:43 pm 
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Yes. There IS a difference between a "Professional Magician" and a "Paid Amateur". These 14 year olds who claim to be a professional are, in reality, a paid amateur.


Also a very good point.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 11:37 pm 
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Your not a professional magician if you still live at home with mommy and daddy. Good point.


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