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 Post subject: come on, real proof
PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 6:39 pm 
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I don't want to stir up any anger on this, and I know that its been discussed countless times, so I won't tell you my opinion on this and I'll try to stay neutral but.......

The whole criss angel/camera tricks thing has alot of supporters and I was just wondering if anyone has actually been present at one of his illusions who can confirm or deny this? I don't want speculation or tirades on how he's destroying magic. Just real evidence. if there is any.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 7:18 pm 
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Most practicing/working magicians with knowledge and experience know the basic methods of magic. Almost all magic tricks can be reverse engineered if not already known.

When a magical miracle is performed on television but not able to be repeated live for a real audience, logically, the explanation is quite clear.

Unless you heard the testimony of an actual crew member from the cable show or had firsthand knowledge from being there, I doubt anyone can produce hard evidence to convince naive believers.

I have only seen season two of Mind Freak. With over 33 years of magic experience, discussions with working magicians and hearing “first person” accounts from crew members of the show and one of his personal magic advisors, I can say without a doubt, Criss Angel uses camera tricks when performing some of his impossible tricks. Not all of the effects involve camera trickery. You also have to consider when he performs in front of a limited group of people that reek of being hired actors, aka stooges…

One example, which I recall vividly, is Criss climbing out of a manhole cover in the street then rolling up the manhole cover as if it were a welcome-mat. By only watching it once, the method was quite obvious. (The camera cut away from the ground and then focused on a different spot on the street).

There are numerous other examples, but I do not care to go over them because it’s so obvious, it’s not worth my time.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 7:49 pm 
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You won't find the hard proof that you want. Clearly the only thing you will accept is hearing it straight from Criss Angel's mouth.

Much of the trickery Criss Angel uses is not even magic trickery but methods used in movies and tv. A film student could spot his edits.

Criss Angel produces a tv show but tries to pass it off as magic.

And his camera stuff is getting worse by the way. How thats possible I don't know. You'd expect him to get better.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 8:19 pm 
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KingMilo wrote:
You won't find the hard proof that you want. Clearly the only thing you will accept is hearing it straight from Criss Angel's mouth.

Much of the trickery Criss Angel uses is not even magic trickery but methods used in movies and tv. A film student could spot his edits.

Criss Angel produces a tv show but tries to pass it off as magic.

And his camera stuff is getting worse by the way. How thats possible I don't know. You'd expect him to get better.



I just wanted to clarify that I am really neutral on this, but Im not stupid, I just want some real proof. I'm not 100% sure on either way, I tried searching around different topics but each and every one of them end up with vague speculation and no real evidence supporting theories. I do understand the logic for why a lot of people think its all camera tricks but I just wondered if any one had been present in an effect. and I am a film student by the way, and yes there are definitely edits but its still speculation as to whether its edits on the effect or on just the style of the show....just some food for thought....thanks for the imput in the thread


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 10:14 pm 
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Same here etrivett1989, I think that camera tricks are a possibility for some illusions, but at the end it's all speculation. For quite a while now I was convinced that the building to building float was a camera trick. If you watch it repeatedly, I'm sure you'll see what I mean, there is in fact some evidence for it. But since recently, I thought about it again and came to the conclusion that it's in fact a very probable conclusion, but some of the so-called proofs could have other reasons, too.
For example, when Criss vanished from a garbage can and reappeared on the roof, almost everyone screamed "camera trick!", "stooges!"... but even I as an absolute beginner in magic can think of a possibility how he can have accomplished this illusion without them. Some think the building walk was a camera trick, while I can think of a gimmick that he could have used, something very rare and extremely expensive where I'm almost sure Copperfield used it as well for something different. Many people are very fast with their conclusions. I think they forget that Criss has a lot of money and a big team to literally make the impossible possible. He has access to "gimmicks" we maybe can't even think of, or at least would never be able to get access to them. I do a lot of creative thinking when it comes to things like this.
I wouldn't claim that he never used camera tricks, but I've never been there to see it, so I'm always careful with conclusions like this. But it doesn't make much sense do discuss this issue here, my experience to date is that people only will call us stupid for even think like that! :lol:
Seriously, what he definitely does is camera misdirection. In some cases, if he does a move you wouldn't see when you watch it live because of misdirection, it gets cut out to protect the secret because people would get it by watching it repeatedly. Other magicians do that as well and there's nothing wrong with it, though the effect might sometimes look a little stronger this way than it really is- but that's better than involuntarily giving the secret away, there are people who watch a video again and again just to find out how it was done.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 11:28 pm 
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How about when he self levitates in broad daylight up onto a light pole?

Or how about when he vanishes in thin air while riding a motorcycle, and reappears in the audience hundreds of feet away in a matter of seconds.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 12:27 am 
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magikrn wrote:
How about when he self levitates in broad daylight up onto a light pole?

Or how about when he vanishes in thin air while riding a motorcycle, and reappears in the audience hundreds of feet away in a matter of seconds.


Just to point it out: if you watch that motorcycle illusion he does go around a corner and still more than likely that is not really him on the motorcycle. I think another topic is that we live in an age of cell phones and cameras Surely if there was an obvious use of camera editing purely for an effect we would have something to base it on. Some of his larger illusions have tons of people and there is no sure way they could regulate that nobody had a cell phone or camera. But then again maybe he just pays everyone off, however I think it less likely..


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 1:45 am 
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He has been using camera tricks since season 1. But so did david blaine on his first street magic special. Magicians on tv use everything at their disposal, unfortantely its something we have to get used to.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 6:49 am 
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The difference between the one time that Blaine used editing to sweeten one trick and Angel's constant obvious use of cgi and camera edits is huge in my opinion. I can look past Blaine's although I don't think he needed to, but Angel does stuff every single episode that are so much more blatant that even laypeople can see through them..
:roll:


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 10:48 am 
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The_Deuce wrote:
The difference between the one time that Blaine used editing to sweeten one trick and Angel's constant obvious use of cgi and camera edits is huge in my opinion. I can look past Blaine's although I don't think he needed to, but Angel does stuff every single episode that are so much more blatant that even laypeople can see through them..
:roll:


Sorry, but layman can't see through it. All I hear is how great he is, I've never heard a non-magician say he was bad or uses camera tricks. Come on, everyone here would you some trick photography if they had a TV show, I know I would.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 3:58 pm 
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Anybody learned enough in magic to be able to see exactly when and where there is a camera trick is learned enough not to publicly expose. You should try PMing some of the more senior members here for answers.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 8:56 pm 
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Fred531 wrote:
Anybody learned enough in magic to be able to see exactly when and where there is a camera trick is learned enough not to publicly expose. You should try PMing some of the more senior members here for answers.


Senior members know everything.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 10:05 pm 
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I couldn't find a video of it, but first off- find a video of Criss "disappearing" on his dirtbike over the fire. Now, watch very closely when it shows it from behind- he clearly JUMPS to the left. If that's not proof, then I don't know what is. :?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 12:19 am 
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adjones wrote:
I couldn't find a video of it, but first off- find a video of Criss "disappearing" on his dirtbike over the fire. Now, watch very closely when it shows it from behind- he clearly JUMPS to the left. If that's not proof, then I don't know what is. :?


Like I said earlier, I think a more convincing argument could be made that something fishy happened when the bike when out of site for a moment before the jump. That out of all of his tricks I am least suspecting when it comes to camera tricks.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 10:51 am 
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etrivett1989 wrote:
Like I said earlier, I think a more convincing argument could be made that something fishy happened when the bike when out of site for a moment before the jump. That out of all of his tricks I am least suspecting when it comes to camera tricks.


Ahh, yes, I forgot about the bike going out of site. Tsk, tsk. But I think when I can clearly see the edit, it's time for Criss to give up. I wish somebody would get some footage of that and call him out on that.


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