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PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 3:58 pm 
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DerZauberer wrote:
KingOfNynex2003 wrote:
The_Deuce wrote:
am pretty shure that after you have watched some shows you will change your mind(i did:) ).

I agree I watched one of his first season shows when it came out and at first thought he was pretty good, but after about the third episode I realized it was all stooges and edits. He insults the intelligence of his audience by presenting effects that even most laypeople know can't be done by classic magic methods like misdirection or slight of hand.


Who really cares? It's not like he's hurting anyone and it makes the illusions look more cooler to laypeople watching it on tv.

Wrong Wrong Wrong Wrong Wrong Wrong Wrong!!!

Criss is hurting the Art itself. He is creating unrealistic expectations of the audience so when they see him live they are very disappointed. Why do you think the majority of people that have seen the soft-opening of his Cirque show have stated it’s a pure dud! The only people that praise him are “blind” Loyals that really don’t get it. I don’t care if he has inspired you or you think he’s the coolest guy in a sleeveless shirt – that does not make him a talented magician!

Making illusions look “cooler” to a TV audience is not why he uses editing. He is using camera edits and stooges to mask his pure lack of talent. If he were a highly skilled magician, he would have no need of camera edits, etc… Crissy is destroying decades of trust that REAL magicians labored to earn from the TV audience.

So you ask who really cares. Real working magicians care. Anyone involved in the Art of Magic care. Audiences that wish to be entertained without being cheated or have their intelligence insulted care!

When you study more about history of magic or if you take off your blinders and research other magicians out there you may eventually get it. I doubt it though. It seems most Loyals are about as intelligent as a box of rocks and even though the evidence slaps them in the face, they refuse to believe Criss Angel is a no-talent hack.


Ha so true. I couldn't state it much better. Although I did state the reasons why Angel is hated and despised, so I will give you a link to that topic even though its only a couple down so that since you understand why Angel is so awesome despite us knowing more about magic so that you can refute my points. We have waited for the loyals to do that but they never can, all they can do is talk about how inspiring Angel is.

Edit:

Actually I will just copy it and paste my points here, so here they are, please refute them for us:


1. Any magician that is decently skilled knows Angel is not very talented as far as actual technique goes, especially concerning stuff like sleight of hand. He hardly ever does it. Even if you disagree with that, this is my point here. There are TONS of amazing manipulators out there that are literally hundreds of times more talented with actual technique than Angel, but he constantly claims to be the best at this and that. Its sickening and insulting to those that are more talented than him.

2. He constantly uses camera tricks. To those of you out there that keep on disagreeing with this, it can't even be debated now. He DOES use camera trickery. Deal with it. And to make it worse he claims he doesn't.

3. He exposes magic. Sure most of the stuff is simple, but he has exposed at least 2 or 3 principles that really nice effects I know need to work because its one part of the method to making the effect happen.

4. He exposes other performers now apparently. He exposed some of Blaine's mind reading effects and the Balduci levitation by performing them as bad as he possibly could so that he could deny exposing them if any magician says something about it. But by performing the effects terribly he gave away the methods just as if you messed up an effect and had a person discover the method without you meaning to give it away, although Angel INTENTIONALLY PERFORMED BADLY TO EXPOSE THE METHOD.

5. He insults other performers. He has called Cyril Takayama and cussed him out and accused him of copying him once he had some television deal in Japan from what I've read, although I don't remember the details. I just remember Angel was afraid he would come here on tv and that Cyril implied it was Angel but would not name the person. He also mocked Blaine and exposed the Balduci levitation to make Blaine look talentless. Back when Angel first started out on tv he was constantly challenging Blaine and such as well, and constantly talked about how Blaine hadn't done a single performance on "broadway" or something like that, meaning that Blaine wasn't a stage magician and obviously not talented since he didn't have a stage show.

6. He often claims true, real, supernatural power. The very first episode where he levitated he said "This is not a trick, this is real, what you see is what you get." He also said something similar to that before two other demonstrations as I remember being the steamroller and the one where he walked on screwdrivers, but I can't remember very well. He often claims true real power while performing mentalism as well. During his seance halloween episode I believe he seemed to be talking to the dead, and performed in a manner that gave no disclaimer until the very end of the episode, which I didn't even see like thousands of other viewers because of it being put at the very very end of the episode and only lasting literally half a second.

7. He heckles other performers. He ruined one performance on the show Phenomenon by acting like the guy performing was claiming to be able to communicate with the dead. I may be wrong here but I believe that was just the presentation he chose, but that he did not claim to be a medium or to have powers but only claimed to be a mentalist or illusionist or something like that. Angel also went after Uri Geller for no reason in the process, and while Geller probably deserves it, Angel still had no reason to do so since Geller had acted responsibly on the show by not claiming to have supernatural power. Again I could be mistaken there as well because I didn't watch Phenomenon much.

8. He steals effects from other magicians and sells them as his own. The Criss Angel levitation is truly the Icarus levitation simply turned backwards. Its stealing and he should have to give every penny he made to the creator of the Icarus levitation.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 4:49 pm 
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Joined: 01 Sep 2008
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thecooltonto wrote:
DerZauberer wrote:
KingOfNynex2003 wrote:
The_Deuce wrote:
am pretty shure that after you have watched some shows you will change your mind(i did:) ).

I agree I watched one of his first season shows when it came out and at first thought he was pretty good, but after about the third episode I realized it was all stooges and edits. He insults the intelligence of his audience by presenting effects that even most laypeople know can't be done by classic magic methods like misdirection or slight of hand.


Who really cares? It's not like he's hurting anyone and it makes the illusions look more cooler to laypeople watching it on tv.

Wrong Wrong Wrong Wrong Wrong Wrong Wrong!!!

Criss is hurting the Art itself. He is creating unrealistic expectations of the audience so when they see him live they are very disappointed. Why do you think the majority of people that have seen the soft-opening of his Cirque show have stated it’s a pure dud! The only people that praise him are “blind” Loyals that really don’t get it. I don’t care if he has inspired you or you think he’s the coolest guy in a sleeveless shirt – that does not make him a talented magician!

Making illusions look “cooler” to a TV audience is not why he uses editing. He is using camera edits and stooges to mask his pure lack of talent. If he were a highly skilled magician, he would have no need of camera edits, etc… Crissy is destroying decades of trust that REAL magicians labored to earn from the TV audience.

So you ask who really cares. Real working magicians care. Anyone involved in the Art of Magic care. Audiences that wish to be entertained without being cheated or have their intelligence insulted care!

When you study more about history of magic or if you take off your blinders and research other magicians out there you may eventually get it. I doubt it though. It seems most Loyals are about as intelligent as a box of rocks and even though the evidence slaps them in the face, they refuse to believe Criss Angel is a no-talent hack.


Ha so true. I couldn't state it much better. Although I did state the reasons why Angel is hated and despised, so I will give you a link to that topic even though its only a couple down so that since you understand why Angel is so awesome despite us knowing more about magic so that you can refute my points. We have waited for the loyals to do that but they never can, all they can do is talk about how inspiring Angel is.

Edit:

Actually I will just copy it and paste my points here, so here they are, please refute them for us:


1. Any magician that is decently skilled knows Angel is not very talented as far as actual technique goes, especially concerning stuff like sleight of hand. He hardly ever does it. Even if you disagree with that, this is my point here. There are TONS of amazing manipulators out there that are literally hundreds of times more talented with actual technique than Angel, but he constantly claims to be the best at this and that. Its sickening and insulting to those that are more talented than him. I know about how he does pretty much no sleight of hand color]

2. He constantly uses camera tricks. To those of you out there that keep on disagreeing with this, it can't even be debated now. He DOES use camera trickery. Deal with it. And to make it worse he claims he doesn't.

[color=red]and I know that he pretty much only uses camera editing when he does his tricks and I don't really care about that because I won't lose any respect for him.


3. He exposes magic. Sure most of the stuff is simple, but he has exposed at least 2 or 3 principles that really nice effects I know need to work because its one part of the method to making the effect happen.

4. He exposes other performers now apparently. He exposed some of Blaine's mind reading effects and the Balduci levitation by performing them as bad as he possibly could so that he could deny exposing them if any magician says something about it. But by performing the effects terribly he gave away the methods just as if you messed up an effect and had a person discover the method without you meaning to give it away, although Angel INTENTIONALLY PERFORMED BADLY TO EXPOSE THE METHOD.
Both you and I and everyone else on these forums know that the Balducci Levitation was exposed many years before Criss ever revealed it on his Mindfreak show and most of it was on Youtube exposing the trick completely telling how to do it so what if Criss exposed it on Mindfreak he didn't go into huge detail on what to do with the trick like those stupid kids on Youtube.

5. He insults other performers. He has called Cyril Takayama and cussed him out and accused him of copying him once he had some television deal in Japan from what I've read, although I don't remember the details. I just remember Angel was afraid he would come here on tv and that Cyril implied it was Angel but would not name the person. He also mocked Blaine and exposed the Balduci levitation to make Blaine look talentless. Back when Angel first started out on tv he was constantly challenging Blaine and such as well, and constantly talked about how Blaine hadn't done a single performance on "broadway" or something like that, meaning that Blaine wasn't a stage magician and obviously not talented since he didn't have a stage show.

6. He often claims true, real, supernatural power. The very first episode where he levitated he said "This is not a trick, this is real, what you see is what you get." He also said something similar to that before two other demonstrations as I remember being the steamroller and the one where he walked on screwdrivers, but I can't remember very well. He often claims true real power while performing mentalism as well. During his seance halloween episode I believe he seemed to be talking to the dead, and performed in a manner that gave no disclaimer until the very end of the episode, which I didn't even see like thousands of other viewers because of it being put at the very very end of the episode and only lasting literally half a second.

7. He heckles other performers. He ruined one performance on the show Phenomenon by acting like the guy performing was claiming to be able to communicate with the dead. I may be wrong here but I believe that was just the presentation he chose, but that he did not claim to be a medium or to have powers but only claimed to be a mentalist or illusionist or something like that. Angel also went after Uri Geller for no reason in the process, and while Geller probably deserves it, Angel still had no reason to do so since Geller had acted responsibly on the show by not claiming to have supernatural power. Again I could be mistaken there as well because I didn't watch Phenomenon much.
Well the guy claimed he could talk to Criss's dead dad how would you feel if somebody claimed they could talk a close relative of yours that's dead? You wouldn't exactly politely say, "Would you not kid about that please?" Criss has stated on many occasions that he was really close with his father and misses him everyday so obviously when that guy claimed that he could talk to his dead dad he pretty much lost it.

8. He steals effects from other magicians and sells them as his own. The Criss Angel levitation is truly the Icarus levitation simply turned backwards. Its stealing and he should have to give every penny he made to the creator of the Icarus levitation.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 6:36 pm 
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KingOfNynex2003 wrote:
and I know that he pretty much only uses camera editing when he does his tricks and I don't really care about that because I won't lose any respect for him.

That makes absolutely no sense – You know he cheats to look good and yet you still respect him? Please refer to my “Box of Rocks” in the previous post.

Well the guy claimed he could talk to Criss's dead dad how would you feel if somebody claimed they could talk a close relative of yours that's dead? Criss has stated on many occasions that he was really close with his father and misses him everyday so obviously when that guy claimed that he could talk to his dead dad he pretty much lost it.

You are so full of crap I can smell it all the way over here! Jim Callahan NEVER claimed he could communicate with Crissy’s dead father. NEVER NEVER! In Jim’s presentation, he claimed to communicate with Raymond Hill and ONLY Raymond Hill.

Everything else about Crissy’s Father is pure BUNK! Your delusional if you think otherwise. Whatever you read or heard otherwise is a LIE! Crissy crossed the line by challenging a magician on national television; it was unprofessional and just plain arrogance. Once again, refer to my “Box of Rocks” quote in the previous post!


I am now convinced that you are truly, sadly, misinformed and completely delusional about the truth! You respect someone that cheats with camera edits and stooges. You concede this and do not refute it at all, so still thinking he is a great performer/magician leaves you with zero credibility and the only nod you’re going to get are from other mindless, delusional loyals.

My God, I have never seen someone SO Naïve or just plain clueless!.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 7:48 pm 
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KingOfNynex2003 wrote:
DerZauberer wrote:
KingOfNynex2003 wrote:
and I know that he pretty much only uses camera editing when he does his tricks and I don't really care about that because I won't lose any respect for him.

That makes absolutely no sense – You know he cheats to look good and yet you still respect him? Please refer to my “Box of Rocks” in the previous post.

Well the guy claimed he could talk to Criss's dead dad how would you feel if somebody claimed they could talk a close relative of yours that's dead? Criss has stated on many occasions that he was really close with his father and misses him everyday so obviously when that guy claimed that he could talk to his dead dad he pretty much lost it.

You are so full of crap I can smell it all the way over here! Jim Callahan NEVER claimed he could communicate with Crissy’s dead father. NEVER NEVER! In Jim’s presentation, he claimed to communicate with Raymond Hill and ONLY Raymond Hill.

Everything else about Crissy’s Father is pure BUNK! Your delusional if you think otherwise. Whatever you read or heard otherwise is a LIE! Crissy crossed the line by challenging a magician on national television; it was unprofessional and just plain arrogance. Once again, refer to my “Box of Rocks” quote in the previous post!


I am now convinced that you are truly, sadly, misinformed and completely delusional about the truth! You respect someone that cheats with camera edits and stooges. You concede this and do not refute it at all, so still thinking he is a great performer/magician leaves you with zero credibility and the only nod you’re going to get are from other mindless, delusional loyals.

My God, I have never seen someone SO Naïve or just plain clueless!.


you know what if you hate me this much just save yourself the trouble and ban me from these forums because I am sick and tired of hearing your sh*t about how much you hate Criss and therefore me and since it's a criminal offence to do what you guys have been saying about Criss I'll just report this forum to the Police and see what they do with all of you guys who have been bashing Criss.

Okay – This is the last time I am going to address you since I get more amusement having a conversation with my Parrot.

I have no reason to ban you since you really have done nothing against Forum Policy. (Personally, I think you just lack true magic experience and your taste in good magicians is skewed).

To address your other outrageous exaggerations: When have I EVER used the word HATE? It’s not in my vocabulary unless we’re talking about seafood or Rap music.

Secondly, Although my assessment of Criss Angel may be more enlightened than yours, you are still entitled to an opinion, that is no reason to HATE you, which I never implied.

I was a detective for ten + years I’d like to know which criminal offense we are guilty of. As far as I last read, there is still freedom of speech in this country and I can say just about anything I wish about a talentless hack short of threatening him. (The Penguin Forums have stricter rules than the U.S. but even you should understand that a little? Perhaps not since you think calling the police seems to be your only recourse, Which I hope to God you are being sarcastic about; if not, this is a sad sad situation).

Since your brain clearly doesn’t reach the top floor I’ll let you in on a well known fact. (Of course I can only speak for myself, but I am sure many will back me up), We are not “Bashing” Criss; we are simply calling it as we see it. Something you completely don’t have a grasp of.

I am going yo use my "Tyrant" powers and have the last word about this...

[LOCKED]


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