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PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 7:10 pm 
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Penguin

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Quote:
He objects to lighting a fire with a lighter, but not to lighting a fire with a switch.


technically you are not lighting fire with a switch, you are passing an electric current through a filament wire causing it to heat up and glow :P

Sorry had to say that. But on the other side of things I've generally found that if you are doing a religious event you show as much respect to the religion as possible. I once did a performance for the Church of Latter Day Saints, and was asked not to bring a deck of cards into the temple complex. It did mean I had to empty my pockets and avoid the temple area to get to the hall I was performing in but by going that extra mile and showing a little bit more respect the people who hired me actually paid me extra.

Just generally go the extra mile


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 7:30 pm 
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born to perform.

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LBCCDave wrote:
Quote:
He objects to lighting a fire with a lighter, but not to lighting a fire with a switch.


technically you are not lighting fire with a switch, you are passing an electric current through a filament wire causing it to heat up and glow :P



Whatever the technical term is, according to Jewish Law, it's still considered lighting a fire, as well as being prohibited for completing a circuit (a thanks to Elipark for correcting me there).


Last edited by salmononius2 on Sat Nov 01, 2008 8:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 7:39 pm 
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Actually, i don't mean to get technical, but the prohibition againt turning on a light on shabbat is because of the melacha (catagory of forbidden work) of "creating" or "completing". By turning on a light you complete the curcuit, which is forbidden. It actually has little to do with the fire/spark/light itself.

And as for the flash paper vs. light switch thing, personally i agree, they are both prohibited. But some people see it differently, that's their way.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 8:17 pm 
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born to perform.

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This topic started out asking advice on performing at a bat mitzvah, and has turned into a shiur on the lamed tes melochos!

We should make a chat room for Jewish magicians, and take the discussion there! 8)


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 8:17 pm 
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Elipark, you are right, it is the Melocho of Boneh (creating, and when it's turned off it's Sosair, destroying). However, it is also Mechabeh (extinguishing) when you turn it off. Check the sefer Shmiras Shabbos Kehilchasa, Chelek Aleph, Perker Yud-Gimmel, Sif Aleph.

Wow, until this thread started I didn't know there were so many Jews on this forum :D


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 8:55 pm 
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wow i found tis topic halarious im jewish too! good to know lol :D


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:42 am 
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salmononius2 wrote:
Elipark, you are right, it is the Melocho of Boneh (creating, and when it's turned off it's Sosair, destroying). However, it is also Mechabeh (extinguishing) when you turn it off. Check the sefer Shmiras Shabbos Kehilchasa, Chelek Aleph, Perker Yud-Gimmel, Sif Aleph.

Wow, until this thread started I didn't know there were so many Jews on this forum :D


lol, neither. And it seems that at least a few of us are orthodox too...

good to know i'm not alone :wink:

lol...and it's funny how we were using 'normal language' (like sabbath) and then it turned into hebrew words transliterated :lol:


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 3:23 am 
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OK, from now on lets write everything in Yiddish. :D


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 6:18 am 
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hahaha...nice.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 1:06 pm 
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born to perform.

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Haha! I'm Jewish as well, so I'll throw in my own two cents. Maybe Paddy's rabbi was either conservative or reform, so he lets his congregation drive to temple on Shabbos and turn on lights and stuff.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 2:36 pm 
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Fred531 wrote:
Haha! I'm Jewish as well, so I'll throw in my own two cents. Maybe Paddy's rabbi was either conservative or reform, so he lets his congregation drive to temple on Shabbos and turn on lights and stuff.
OOPS, thought I mentioned it's an egalitarian conservative congregation. They count women for minyanim and even have them wear head covering & Tallit when called to the Torah. I have problems with the talit.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 2:46 pm 
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born to perform.

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I think this has gone WAY off topic. Please can we keep on topic, the off topic area is for this type of conversation. :roll:


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 2:47 pm 
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I've read there are several "workarounds" to the 39 rules. Electric lights are one, microwave ovens are another, as long as you reheat pre-cooked food rather than preparing a meal from scratch. Driving is supposed to be out, but if you're driving to your Friday family meal (I don't know the proper word for that) then it's okay. They want to keep the *spirit* of the rules alive without restricting people so much that they can't adhere to them.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 2:48 pm 
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ukcop wrote:
I think this has gone WAY off topic. Please can we keep on topic, the off topic area is for this type of conversation. :roll:

I think we're doing fine... for now. If someone wants to perform for a Bar or Bat Mitzvah, they need to know the religious restrictions they're going to face.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 3:34 pm 
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DaveV wrote:
I've read there are several "workarounds" to the 39 rules. Electric lights are one, microwave ovens are another, as long as you reheat pre-cooked food rather than preparing a meal from scratch. Driving is supposed to be out, but if you're driving to your Friday family meal (I don't know the proper word for that) then it's okay. They want to keep the *spirit* of the rules alive without restricting people so much that they can't adhere to them.


Sounds like the view of reform or some conservative Jews.

For Orthodox Jews, there are NO workarounds. Except for sakanah (danger ie: life or death situation).

Dave, you have to remember that different levels of Jews have different standards. So whatever you may be reading may be the view of one level of Jews, while the other levels would not do something like that.

Paddy wrote:
OK, from now on lets write everything in Yiddish. :D


Ich Kin Nisht Varshteiyt Yiddish :wink:


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