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 Post subject: Philadelphia Changes Busking Laws
PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 11:28 am 
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http://www.metro.us/us/article/2009/05/ ... /index.xml

Mixed reviews to SEPTA's busker limits

CENTER CITY. While waiting for the early evening R6 train at Suburban Station, some riders listen to their iPods or other music devices. Joe Kovach prefers the toe-tapping rhythms of street musicians.

"Sometimes it's entertaining when you're waiting for a train, especially with delays," said Kovach, a Phoenixville resident and daily Regional Rail commuter, watching a performer sing and play the keyboard. "It gives you something to watch."

Complaints from riders and merchants, however, prompted a new SEPTA policy that goes into effect Aug. 3, restrictings performers to certain areas, while requiring them to have free permits. It is drawing mixed reviews from SEPTA passengers.

Kovach said he considers the crackdown on free entertainment unnecessary, but noted that it may make other passengers feel more comfortable.

"Sometimes you feel obligated to give them something," he said.

Brian Rose, a daily commuter who waits for the R6 train at the Juan Valdez Cafe in the station, said the volume of music and number of performers became down-right annoying, especially from those with amplifiers, which SEPTA has also outlawed.

"This the second time in like an hour that he had to be yelled at," Rose said, pointing to the keyboard player. "It's very loud, and just the mix of music when there's so many people that do it [is annoying]."

Peter Hansen, SEPTA's manager of office facilities, said he does not expect to have trouble enforcing the new policy.

"Like any new regulation, it’s going to take time for people to get used to it," he said. "It’s going to take us time to see what the reaction is."


SEPTA UNPLUGGED HELPS SOME, HURTS OTHERS
Dennis Appleby, a cashier at Juan Valdez Cafe in Suburban Station, has had days where the "noise" coming from street musicians in the concourse was so loud it was nearly impossible to conduct business.

"If I can't hear the customers and they can't hear me that annoys them and me because you don't want to be screaming over each other," said Appleby, adding that complained to SEPTA a few times nearly a year ago about the disturbances.

In his case, SEPTA's new policy restricting performers to four designated areas and requiring free permits beginning Aug. 3 could mean better business in the down economy.

But the same can't be said for Peter Pettit, 54, who has played his electronic keyboard in the station for almost six years in the afternoons. He said the crackdown is another way for SEPTA to harasses street musicians and regulate a tax-free industry.

"I used to get down here and make $80 to $100 on a good day," said Pettit, who occasionally works at a bike shop with his brother. "When it comes down to three hours, you won't make no more than $20 to $40...A lot of people not even gonna be interested in playing no three hours.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 12:46 pm 
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Quote:
"Sometimes you feel obligated to give them something


Oh noes, we need to legislate around your feelings of inadequacy. Try going to France where the music players on trains get within 2 feet of your face.

I wonder if they ask for social security number on the permits.


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 Post subject: Re: Philadelphia Changes Busking Laws
PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 12:57 pm 
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PeabodyNJ wrote:
"I used to get down here and make $80 to $100 on a good day," said Pettit, who occasionally works at a bike shop with his brother. "When it comes down to three hours, you won't make no more than $20 to $40...A lot of people not even gonna be interested in playing no three hours.


Even at the lowest end, this averages out to be more than the minimum wage.

The federal minimum wage for covered nonexempt employees is $6.55 per hour effective July 24, 2008. And taxes are taken out of this amount.

I doubt that Mr. Pettit pays taxes on his earnings. This is unfair to the hard-working high school drop outs and unwed mothers that have to work hard and still can't make ends meet. It is also unfair to all the other people who will be paying for the new deficit for the rest of their lives.


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 Post subject: Re: Philadelphia Changes Busking Laws
PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 1:15 pm 
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DespoticDemagogue wrote:
I doubt that Mr. Pettit pays taxes on his earnings.


You can't be serious. This is a drop in the bucket compared to the millions of immigrants doing day labor for cash.


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 Post subject: Re: Philadelphia Changes Busking Laws
PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 7:19 pm 
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DespoticDemagogue wrote:

I doubt that Mr. Pettit pays taxes on his earnings. This is unfair to the hard-working high school drop outs and unwed mothers that have to work hard and still can't make ends meet. It is also unfair to all the other people who will be paying for the new deficit for the rest of their lives.
DD, that's not your business nor anyone else's. Sorry about your limited ability but life is unfair. Just because YOU do not have the ability or the couirage to go out and attempt to earn a living doesn't mean other's can't do it.

I have been a full time performer for 15 years, busking, b'day parties, and restaurant performing. I could have sat on my fat a$$ and gotten welfare. I could have gotten a minimum wage job, but I decided that I would be my own boss. The audience gives me my job performance review every show I do. My income is considered top secret to me and my family but I WORK to make a living you DEMAND OTHERS TO PAY YOU FOR FAILING. Life's tough, too bad.

Paddy


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 Post subject: Re: Philadelphia Changes Busking Laws
PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 12:27 pm 
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paddy wrote:
DespoticDemagogue wrote:

I doubt that Mr. Pettit pays taxes on his earnings. This is unfair to the hard-working high school drop outs and unwed mothers that have to work hard and still can't make ends meet. It is also unfair to all the other people who will be paying for the new deficit for the rest of their lives.
DD, that's not your business nor anyone else's. Sorry about your limited ability but life is unfair. Just because YOU do not have the ability or the couirage to go out and attempt to earn a living doesn't mean other's can't do it.

I have been a full time performer for 15 years, busking, b'day parties, and restaurant performing. I could have sat on my fat a$$ and gotten welfare. I could have gotten a minimum wage job, but I decided that I would be my own boss. The audience gives me my job performance review every show I do. My income is considered top secret to me and my family but I WORK to make a living you DEMAND OTHERS TO PAY YOU FOR FAILING. Life's tough, too bad.

Paddy


What are you trying to alledge exactly? I haven't been able to figure out whether you consider me a high school dropout or an unwed mother? Would you clarify that for me. Thanks.

And sorry that for some reason or other, you had to leave your job 15 years ago. I didn't know and wasn't trying to insinuate anything with my posts about lazy, non-tax paying people.

Of course, if you had read the post, you would have seen that I was complaining about this guy stating that the amount of money was now too little to motivate him to go out and busk. I clearly wrote that this is more than minimum wage. And yes, I said he probably doesn't pay taxes on it. THAT MAKES WHAT HE EARNS MUCH MORE THAN MINIMUM WAGE.

In case anyone still doesn't understand, this means Mr. Pettit should stop complaining. As Paddy clearly stated, life is not fair. I guess that would explain why Paddy decided to use this rhetorical attack against me.


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PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 8:29 pm 
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DD,

Don't take Paddy's rant personally. He does it to all of us from time to time. Chalk it up to crankiness, I knew exactly what you were saying, Sometimes he's been known to misunderstand people.

I'm thinking that you are not against busking. Is that right? Just against complaining? Me too.

Ted


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2009 12:40 am 
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tedricpancoast wrote:
I'm thinking that you are not against busking. Is that right? Just against complaining? Me too.

Ted


Guilty as accused.


As for Paddy, I think you are right. I overreacted to a meaningless opinion which wasn't even remotely based on what I wrote. I would be cranky too if I got fired and couldn't find a job for 15 years.


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PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2009 3:06 am 
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DD, I have never been fired in my life nor have I been in a situation where I "couldn't find a job." I chose this way of life for the reasons stated. You seemed to me to be complaining about this guy's lack of paying taxes, or you assumed he did not pay taxes. That was what I was responding to. YOU were the one saying it was not fair that he was not paying his taxes so that was stopping someone from their "entitlements."

If I misunderstood you as Ted thinks I did, Then I was wrong and apologize.

I firmly believe in our (buskers) wqy of life. I would not go back to working for someone else to save my butt. This way I know that I have earned every cent I make and have not had it given to me. Read Ayn Rand's book "Atlas Shrugged" to understand my philosophy.

Paddy


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2009 12:40 pm 
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paddy wrote:
YOU were the one saying it was not fair that he was not paying his taxes so that was stopping someone from their "entitlements."

If I misunderstood you as Ted thinks I did, Then I was wrong and apologize.


Yes, you did misunderstand. I accept your apology.

I also think I understand your "busker philosophy". This probably is in line with my arguement that Mr. Pettit should stop complaining about the new situation not being profitable enough, that HE would quit busking (and in all likelyhood collect his "entitlements"). I thought it was clear that my comments about him (probably) not paying taxes emphasized my opinion that he shouldn't be complaining.

You claim that it was a misunderstanding and deny that you were manipulating my words to slander me. I accept that explanation.


You were man enough to apologize, and so am I. I admit it was a cheap shot to insinuate that you "got fired".


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2009 4:30 am 
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Well, we got a little off topic...I'll try to get back on.

All in all, I don't have a huge problem with the two restrictions that SEPTA put on entertainers in the subway area.

Restricting them to certain areas could make sense based on safety, noise and other such circumstances.

Requiring a permit I also think is fine so they can verify who the people actually are doing these shows. They are not charging for the permit or the performance space, so I think its an even trade. By requiring permits, it allows them to restrict access to buskers who do not follow the rules and ruin it for the rest of us.

P


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2009 8:00 pm 
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Location: Burleson , Texas , stop buying every new trick and Read some bloody books
Busking laws are crazy, I don't see the huge deal, whats wrong with busking? Its not like your streaking on the streets of Philly, magic is entertainment, well so is streaking, but in a different way, let dudes busk, leave them alone.


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PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2009 3:22 am 
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amcworth wrote:
Busking laws are crazy, I don't see the huge deal, whats wrong with busking? Its not like your streaking on the streets of Philly, magic is entertainment, well so is streaking, but in a different way, let dudes busk, leave them alone.


The problem is that some buskers just suck. They don't use performance to get a tip, but rather loudness and intimidation. And some are just annoying. It is because of these buskers that such laws are implemented.


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PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2009 12:38 pm 
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DespoticDemagogue wrote:
They don't use performance to get a tip, but rather loudness and intimidation. And some are just annoying


On my vacation in Paris, the music players got within maybe 2 feet of your face on the trains. REALLY annoying.


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