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 Post subject: Re: The Greatest Beginner Magic DVD Ever review
PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 3:36 pm 
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Joined: 26 Sep 2008
Posts: 209
i just recivied it for free also and i also have josh jays and they are both amazing.

josh jays has more tricks that might be ranged from easy to really hard for less

but i think that dvds are the best because to see how to do the pass or the french drop is easier to understand rather that trying to understand it through words.


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 Post subject: Re: The Greatest Beginner Magic DVD Ever review
PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 3:46 pm 
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Location: Pittsburgh, PA
From my experience, the explanations in a book actually include more detail, and force you to focus on the exact actions. I don't find them any harder or easier to learn from than DVD's, just different.

-JT


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 Post subject: Re: The Greatest Beginner Magic DVD Ever review
PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 3:58 pm 
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Gimpdiggity wrote:
miniserb725 wrote:
It also bothers me that magicians managed for hundreds of years to learn from books, but now that videos are available, so many people "can't learn from books". Can't or don't want to?-JT



Magic has been around for what, we would probably think several thousand years?? Think of it this way...there was probably a point in time when you could realistically say "Magicians managed for hundreds of years to learn from word of mouth and other magicians, but now that BOOKS are available, so many people "can't learn from word of mouth." Can't or don't want to?"


..... Really? Nowadays I find that word of mouth is the best way to learn. Someone is actually telling you what to do... Watches you do it, then tells you what they saw, and then tells you what they think you should do to improve. Good luck finding that in a book or DVD...


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 Post subject: Re: The Greatest Beginner Magic DVD Ever review
PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 4:25 pm 
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Location: Jackson, Michigan
matthew90 wrote:
What are you talking about? Books are still a better resource than DVDs. This doesn't relate at all. Because we have buses sure we don't walk miles. But because we have DVDs and videos doesn't mean we don't have to read books. When you go to school do you watch DVDs? No you read books to educate yourself in the best possible manner.


Books are a better resource than DVDs IN YOUR OPINION. Those Caps Locked letters are the most important thing to keep in mind here.

What you FEEL isn't necessarily what everyone else should feel.

And no, when I go to school I don't watch DVDs. But I also don't go to school, because I'm almost 31 years old. However, when I learn new things at work (which is like school only I get paid, quite a bit) EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM IS PRESENTED AS A VIDEO. Why? Because video learning works...for MANY people.

So while you may think that books are the best way of learning possible, there are others who would disagree with you. So your opinion is not right or wrong...and neither is the other person's. Different people find it easier to learn things in different ways. Just because someone else doesn't particularly find your preferred method of learning to be the best doesn't mean that they are wrong.


Last edited by Gimpdiggity on Wed Oct 28, 2009 5:17 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The Greatest Beginner Magic DVD Ever review
PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 4:27 pm 
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Sabby wrote:
..... Really? Nowadays I find that word of mouth is the best way to learn. Someone is actually telling you what to do... Watches you do it, then tells you what they saw, and then tells you what they think you should do to improve. Good luck finding that in a book or DVD...



You've taken that statement completely out of it's context. I was using it to illustrate that at one point in time, books were actually "technology."


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 Post subject: Re: The Greatest Beginner Magic DVD Ever review
PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 9:02 pm 
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Gimpdiggity wrote:
matthew90 wrote:
What are you talking about? Books are still a better resource than DVDs. This doesn't relate at all. Because we have buses sure we don't walk miles. But because we have DVDs and videos doesn't mean we don't have to read books. When you go to school do you watch DVDs? No you read books to educate yourself in the best possible manner.


Books are a better resource than DVDs IN YOUR OPINION. Those Caps Locked letters are the most important thing to keep in mind here.

What you FEEL isn't necessarily what everyone else should feel.

And no, when I go to school I don't watch DVDs. But I also don't go to school, because I'm almost 31 years old. However, when I learn new things at work (which is like school only I get paid, quite a bit) EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM IS PRESENTED AS A VIDEO. Why? Because video learning works...for MANY people.

So while you may think that books are the best way of learning possible, there are others who would disagree with you. So your opinion is not right or wrong...and neither is the other person's. Different people find it easier to learn things in different ways. Just because someone else doesn't particularly find your preferred method of learning to be the best doesn't mean that they are wrong.


It is a different situation when you are presenting information quick in your job through a video. Of course you wouldn't make someone read information in a presentation in book form.
However, when you do research for your job (if you do so) you do not learn from videos. You data mine mostly documents. You read.

Books contain much more information than DVDs. When someone says that they can't learn from books or just learn better from DVDs, they don't give books a try. Books are the best way to educate yourself, whether you say you learn better from DVDs or not is irrelevant. It is a matter of applying yourself.


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 Post subject: Re: The Greatest Beginner Magic DVD Ever review
PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 9:17 pm 
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matthew90 wrote:
Gimpdiggity wrote:
matthew90 wrote:
What are you talking about? Books are still a better resource than DVDs. This doesn't relate at all. Because we have buses sure we don't walk miles. But because we have DVDs and videos doesn't mean we don't have to read books. When you go to school do you watch DVDs? No you read books to educate yourself in the best possible manner.


Books are a better resource than DVDs IN YOUR OPINION. Those Caps Locked letters are the most important thing to keep in mind here.

What you FEEL isn't necessarily what everyone else should feel.

And no, when I go to school I don't watch DVDs. But I also don't go to school, because I'm almost 31 years old. However, when I learn new things at work (which is like school only I get paid, quite a bit) EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM IS PRESENTED AS A VIDEO. Why? Because video learning works...for MANY people.

So while you may think that books are the best way of learning possible, there are others who would disagree with you. So your opinion is not right or wrong...and neither is the other person's. Different people find it easier to learn things in different ways. Just because someone else doesn't particularly find your preferred method of learning to be the best doesn't mean that they are wrong.


It is a different situation when you are presenting information quick in your job through a video. Of course you wouldn't make someone read information in a presentation in book form.
However, when you do research for your job (if you do so) you do not learn from videos. You data mine mostly documents. You read.

Books contain much more information than DVDs. When someone says that they can't learn from books or just learn better from DVDs, they don't give books a try. Books are the best way to educate yourself, whether you say you learn better from DVDs or not is irrelevant. It is a matter of applying yourself.


Stop trying so desperately to look intelligent. You can read. Good job. But I think it's only common sense that some things can be difficult to describe using words, and most people have an easier time learning it from actually seeing it done. I don't think anyone in their right mind will argue that most people learn easier visually than from written words, at least when it comes to things that can get as technical as magic tricks and sleights. What I will agree with you on is that books are generally a better value because you get more information for less money. You are correct in stating that that is one advantage that books have over DVDs. But stop acting like books are a better learning tool. They are a better value, yes. If that's your arguement, I will agree with you. If you're trying to say that books are easier to learn from, I'm afraid you're full of something brown.


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 Post subject: Re: The Greatest Beginner Magic DVD Ever review
PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 9:21 pm 
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Joined: 21 Sep 2009
Posts: 2479
Location: Jackson, Michigan
matthew90 wrote:
It is a different situation when you are presenting information quick in your job through a video. Of course you wouldn't make someone read information in a presentation in book form.
However, when you do research for your job (if you do so) you do not learn from videos. You data mine mostly documents. You read.

Books contain much more information than DVDs. When someone says that they can't learn from books or just learn better from DVDs, they don't give books a try. Books are the best way to educate yourself, whether you say you learn better from DVDs or not is irrelevant. It is a matter of applying yourself.


Maybe when YOU do research for your job, you don't do it from videos. That doesn't mean everyone else does. My job involves security and reading people's gestures, emotions, mannerisms, and tells, if you will. Of course you can read about these things all day long, and you will start to understand what it is you're supposed to be looking for. But once you are SHOWN what these things are (via recorded video or setup acting) you can really begin to understand what it is that you are supposed to be looking for. In my area of work, the book can only take you so far. The visual learning of watching these things takes you to the next level.

You completely contradict yourself in your own post. You say "Books are the best way to educate yourself." You then say "whether you say you learn better from DVDs or not is irrelevant." That's about the most ridiculous thing I've ever read. If someone learns better from DVDs, then to THEM obviously books are NOT the best way to educate themselves.

Stop trying to use your OPINION as FACT. Just because YOU learn more at your work by "data mining" doesn't mean that I learn more at work by reading. Just because YOU feel that books are better teachers than videos doesn't mean that everyone else feels that way.

So in closing, your opinion is just that...your's. Like I said before, it's not right or wrong. It's your opinion. You don't seem to be able to grasp the concept that your opinion is right for you, but may not be right for someone else. Of course everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but if you're going to have one you should be open minded enough to understand that others might not feel the exact same way as you, and you should definitely refrain from assuming that you know what's best for anyone else.


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 Post subject: Re: The Greatest Beginner Magic DVD Ever review
PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 9:23 pm 
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Joined: 21 Sep 2009
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Location: Jackson, Michigan
Nightmare91o wrote:
Stop trying so desperately to look intelligent. You can read. Good job. But I think it's only common sense that some things can be difficult to describe using words, and most people have an easier time learning it from actually seeing it done. I don't think anyone in their right mind will argue that most people learn easier visually than from written words, at least when it comes to things that can get as technical as magic tricks and sleights. What I will agree with you on is that books are generally a better value because you get more information for less money. You are correct in stating that that is one advantage that books have over DVDs. But stop acting like books are a better learning tool. They are a better value, yes. If that's your arguement, I will agree with you. If you're trying to say that books are easier to learn from, I'm afraid you're full of something brown.


Uh oh Nightmare...your opinion is different than his...get ready to be told that you're wrong!!! :lol:



By the way everyone, I'm sorry that my opinion has managed to take this thread so far off topic.


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 Post subject: Re: The Greatest Beginner Magic DVD Ever review
PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 9:48 pm 
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Joined: 08 Jul 2006
Posts: 148
Nightmare91o wrote:
matthew90 wrote:
Gimpdiggity wrote:

Books are a better resource than DVDs IN YOUR OPINION. Those Caps Locked letters are the most important thing to keep in mind here.

What you FEEL isn't necessarily what everyone else should feel.

And no, when I go to school I don't watch DVDs. But I also don't go to school, because I'm almost 31 years old. However, when I learn new things at work (which is like school only I get paid, quite a bit) EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM IS PRESENTED AS A VIDEO. Why? Because video learning works...for MANY people.

So while you may think that books are the best way of learning possible, there are others who would disagree with you. So your opinion is not right or wrong...and neither is the other person's. Different people find it easier to learn things in different ways. Just because someone else doesn't particularly find your preferred method of learning to be the best doesn't mean that they are wrong.


It is a different situation when you are presenting information quick in your job through a video. Of course you wouldn't make someone read information in a presentation in book form.
However, when you do research for your job (if you do so) you do not learn from videos. You data mine mostly documents. You read.

Books contain much more information than DVDs. When someone says that they can't learn from books or just learn better from DVDs, they don't give books a try. Books are the best way to educate yourself, whether you say you learn better from DVDs or not is irrelevant. It is a matter of applying yourself.


Stop trying so desperately to look intelligent. You can read. Good job. But I think it's only common sense that some things can be difficult to describe using words, and most people have an easier time learning it from actually seeing it done. I don't think anyone in their right mind will argue that most people learn easier visually than from written words, at least when it comes to things that can get as technical as magic tricks and sleights. What I will agree with you on is that books are generally a better value because you get more information for less money. You are correct in stating that that is one advantage that books have over DVDs. But stop acting like books are a better learning tool. They are a better value, yes. If that's your arguement, I will agree with you. If you're trying to say that books are easier to learn from, I'm afraid you're full of something brown.


I never said books are a better value. I agree with your statements but it doesn't have any relation to what I said. Money wasn't ever a factor?


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 Post subject: Re: The Greatest Beginner Magic DVD Ever review
PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 10:08 pm 
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matthew90 wrote:
I never said books are a better value. I agree with your statements but it doesn't have any relation to what I said. Money wasn't ever a factor?


You said that books have more information. I'm guessing you meant that it's more info for your money. I'm not sure what else you could have meant.


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 Post subject: Re: The Greatest Beginner Magic DVD Ever review
PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 10:12 pm 
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Nightmare91o wrote:
matthew90 wrote:
I never said books are a better value. I agree with your statements but it doesn't have any relation to what I said. Money wasn't ever a factor?


You said that books have more information. I'm guessing you meant that it's more info for your money. I'm not sure what else you could have meant.


They are generally more information period... but ya money is always a factor.

Id rather get MWCCIM for free instead of this dvd, if I didnt already have the book.
Its already cheaper and contains more information than the dvd.. effect wise.

IF you could choose from RRTCM for free or BTP for free which would you choose?
Most of the younger generation would choose BTP, where as the older ones would know that with the knowledge held in RRTCM you can perform the effects in BTP plus much much more.

Now change it up; if they are both $100, knowing what you know... what would you choose?

Now one thing DVDs have that most books dont is the performers own insights on the effect and performance of the effects or sleights. This is a perk to the dvd.


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 Post subject: Re: The Greatest Beginner Magic DVD Ever review
PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 10:32 pm 
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DavidTheCryptic wrote:
Nightmare91o wrote:
matthew90 wrote:
I never said books are a better value. I agree with your statements but it doesn't have any relation to what I said. Money wasn't ever a factor?


You said that books have more information. I'm guessing you meant that it's more info for your money. I'm not sure what else you could have meant.


They are generally more information period... but ya money is always a factor.

Id rather get MWCCIM for free instead of this dvd, if I didnt already have the book.
Its already cheaper and contains more information than the dvd.. effect wise.

IF you could choose from RRTCM for free or BTP for free which would you choose?
Most of the younger generation would choose BTP, where as the older ones would know that with the knowledge held in RRTCM you can perform the effects in BTP plus much much more.

Now change it up; if they are both $100, knowing what you know... what would you choose?

Now one thing DVDs have that most books dont is the performers own insights on the effect and performance of the effects or sleights. This is a perk to the dvd.


Yeah, it all kinda ties together. The money is pretty much the only reason it matters which contains more info. That's why I thought he was talking about value.


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 Post subject: Re: The Greatest Beginner Magic DVD Ever review
PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 10:51 pm 
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Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Gimpdiggity wrote:
...to me the real value comes from what I'll be doing with it next...I'm going to be giving it to my little nephew (who is too young for any serious magic books) for a birthday present. If it can get him interested in magic, then the $30 price tag would have been well worth it to me, and would be infinitely more valuable to him than any book would be any time soon...


This is just an aside, but your story reminded me of something from my childhood.

I had a burning desire to learn magic after watching a TV special. My mom bought me a small book (this is about age 7) and I was off to the races. What I loved about the book is that I was learning secrets. I was learning something no one else knew. To me, that was the most fun part, digging through this book to learn magic secrets.

It may be the fact that I've always loved reading, but this to me seems so much more valuable in the long run, to begin by learning from books. Reading well is a lost skill, and my generation (current 20-26 year olds) seems to be the last generation that has actually acquired this skill. From observing classrooms across all age ranges, I've seen that literacy is less and less enforced.

In my opinion, learning to read from books will enable you to go much farther in magic. They require the most "getting used to" and if you acquire this skill early, you don't have to rely solely on DVD's to learn. You can learn from videos, text, live performance, any source you want!

-JT


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 Post subject: Re: The Greatest Beginner Magic DVD Ever review
PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 10:56 pm 
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miniserb725 wrote:
This is just an aside, but your story reminded me of something from my childhood.

I had a burning desire to learn magic after watching a TV special. My mom bought me a small book (this is about age 7) and I was off to the races. What I loved about the book is that I was learning secrets. I was learning something no one else knew. To me, that was the most fun part, digging through this book to learn magic secrets.

It may be the fact that I've always loved reading, but this to me seems so much more valuable in the long run, to begin by learning from books. Reading well is a lost skill, and my generation (current 20-26 year olds) seems to be the last generation that has actually acquired this skill. From observing classrooms across all age ranges, I've seen that literacy is less and less enforced.

In my opinion, learning to read from books will enable you to go much farther in magic. They require the most "getting used to" and if you acquire this skill early, you don't have to rely solely on DVD's to learn. You can learn from videos, text, live performance, any source you want!

-JT


Yah, I would gladly get him a book, but he is seriously too young for any kind of serious book about anything...much less any kind of magic. He's only going to be five!!

However, I have shown him a couple of basic tricks even when he was only three and gotten him to follow along and perform it fairly well...for a four year old!!!

I think that he'll be able to follow along with a couple of the tricks on the DVD, especially if I hang out with him and watch it with him. Hopefully if he enjoys it, then over the next several years I'll be able to start getting him some books.


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