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 Post subject: The ACR....is it still a viable effect?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 11:57 pm 
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Okay some rather interesting comments came up in an a few different threads. In one a guy posted his ACR for review and got some interesting criticism. I critiqued the moves that I thought were good but some others really laid into him on his timing and presentation. Since my ACR is mostly used for practice or as an easy go to trick if someone is pestering it hadn't occurred to me that the guy had intended to show us anything more than how he strung together a bunch of moves(stupid I know). In another thread a couple of guys rather intelligently argued why they and the magic savvy customers of the Magic Castle were sick of seeing yet another ACR.

I use ACR all the time to practice moves but rarely perform it, perhaps because subconsciously I agree that it has lost its appeal. I'm not interested in what moves you use but I am interested in your thoughts on the ACRs viability. Is it a good trick that just needs proper presentation? A good platform for practicing sleight of hand? Something a card magician should have a working understanding of but not much else? Or has it completely lost it's value in card magic? All thoughts and comments welcome!


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 Post subject: Re: The ACR....is it still a viable effect?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 12:04 am 
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Quote:
Is it a good trick that just needs proper presentation?


Thats what I think of it.
I use it in my act all the time, and people love it.
Anyone who thinks its not use-able and lost its value is, in my opinion, incredibly mistaken.
Its one thing for the Magic Castle people to be tired of it; they are magicians, so I dont blame them. But the lay audience is entirely different. You cant compare the two and use one to justify the other. Thats not how it works.
The ACR isnt just "stringin a bunch of moves together." Well its is, IF you dont present it right and mix it up some. Just plainly popping it to the top is boring.
But jumping from the specs hands, to the mouth, with a bend, etc... are all great add in moves.
Then to build it up with a story or some good lines to seal the deal.

Its just like any other magic effect, with out proper presentation and build- its nothing.
Jsut my short 1cent.


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 Post subject: Re: The ACR....is it still a viable effect?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 12:07 am 
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I feel that since it's such a straightforward effect, people can follow what going on, which means they react better. The problem with most routines is that they're not clear. So many handlings are just a number of card tricks strung together. If the trick doesn't make sense, it's not going to work, but it's a great test conditions kind of trick, if you've got it routined right.


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 Post subject: Re: The ACR....is it still a viable effect?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 12:13 am 
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Im gonna make my comment before i read what you have to say just in response to the title.

edited yes, do you ever perform for laymen? If so you probably wouldn't be asking that question.

Now i'm gonna go read your post.

edit-
Well yea people who see them all the time will get tired of them. Im tired of it personally but it gets great reactions so i do it. So of course magicians and people who regularly see magic are going to be tired of ambitious card routines. Because they're so common. But they're so common because they're so good.


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 Post subject: Re: The ACR....is it still a viable effect?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 2:50 am 
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acebrawler73 wrote:
Im gonna make my comment before i read what you have to say just in response to the title.

edited yes, do you ever perform for laymen? If so you probably wouldn't be asking that question.

Now i'm gonna go read your post.

edit-
Well yea people who see them all the time will get tired of them. Im tired of it personally but it gets great reactions so i do it. So of course magicians and people who regularly see magic are going to be tired of ambitious card routines. Because they're so common. But they're so common because they're so good.


This is such an awsome way to respond :lol: Obviously you are passionate about a good ACR! Like I said in the post I only perform it when I'm on the spot. I have never used it in a "Gig".

I am really interested in the other side however. Don't afraid to pipe in. There are definitly some cons to the ACR. Lets hear them. For those who perform it or are on the fence, like me, it might help us to know why people don't care for it and what we should be doing to make it more playable.


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 Post subject: Re: The ACR....is it still a viable effect?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 8:34 am 
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DavidTheCryptic wrote:
Quote:
Is it a good trick that just needs proper presentation?


Thats what I think of it.
I use it in my act all the time, and people love it.
Anyone who thinks its not use-able and lost its value is, in my opinion, incredibly mistaken.
Its one thing for the Magic Castle people to be tired of it; they are magicians, so I dont blame them. But the lay audience is entirely different. You cant compare the two and use one to justify the other. Thats not how it works.
The ACR isnt just "stringin a bunch of moves together." Well its is, IF you dont present it right and mix it up some. Just plainly popping it to the top is boring.
But jumping from the specs hands, to the mouth, with a bend, etc... are all great add in moves.
Then to build it up with a story or some good lines to seal the deal.

Its just like any other magic effect, with out proper presentation and build- its nothing.
Jsut my short 1cent.


This is by far not dead at all. Proper Presentation and timeing are the
key to a good A.C.R. Myself Iam not very good with it. I just started learning it myself. But its true you cant compare the guys that juge you in the magic castle to the laymen at all. I did a A.C.R. for my friends at the bar ( Like I said I dont think Iam very good yet ) It went off like gold. They love it.


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 Post subject: Re: The ACR....is it still a viable effect?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 10:34 am 
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My ACR is not about the card jumping to the top of the deck. It's about the card trying to mess with me. I act just as surprised as the spectators, with the card jumping around. It plays well.

-JT


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 Post subject: Re: The ACR....is it still a viable effect?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 10:37 am 
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Actually, the most interest I get in the trick come from just popping it to the top of the pack. Once the interest is built, I do it with a bend, then make it jump higher, which would be a Card to Mouth. If you clutter it up with the card jumping everywhere, no one can follow what's going on. They have no frame of reference and nothing to burn, which is the goal of this trick. You give them the chance to burn every movement and they still can't follow you. It really sets them up to just stop burning your every move, if that's there goal.


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 Post subject: Re: The ACR....is it still a viable effect?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 12:02 pm 
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My objection to the ACR (and my experience at the Castle, seeing it) isn't that the Ambitious Card is played out.. it's that I've seen performers perform it as if THEY are sick of it. No fun. No energy. Etc.

They seem to think that the A in ACR stands for Automatic.

They perform it as if it's a self-impressive routine, and they don't put forward the effort that they should.

I've seen great ACRs, and terrible ones. And the terrible ones all have the same thing in common, and it ain't the moves. It's the fact that the performer seems bored with it, or expects me to get all worked up over it when he himself isn't. I've seen people that I regard as great magicians do terrible ACRs because they gave it no importance at all.

On the Other Hand, I've seen performers do Ambitious card routines in the Closeup Gallery where they had certain parts they did, where they gave it the time and drama required, and the audience gasped.

GASPED. At an ACR. Now, any trick that elicits gasps MUST be a viable trick.

That said, for showing stuff at the Castle, I'm picking things that I don't see anyone else do. But that's a specialized environment where people are seeing multiple magicians in a night.


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 Post subject: Re: The ACR....is it still a viable effect?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 12:51 pm 
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Guys, guys ...



Last edited by akirafist on Fri Nov 13, 2009 12:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The ACR....is it still a viable effect?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 1:23 pm 
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akirafist wrote:


Exactly its all in the presentation! I normally use my routine as a fall back if a trick goes wrong (ie they choose wrong card I say how this likes them specifically and I do a Dave Regal esque routine) or if someone asks me to do a card trick randomly. Mine seems to go over quite well =D


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 Post subject: Re: The ACR....is it still a viable effect?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 11:33 pm 
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akirafist wrote:


Simply beautiful.


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 Post subject: Re: The ACR....is it still a viable effect?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 9:11 am 
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akirafist wrote:


Tommy Wonder is legendary.


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 Post subject: Re: The ACR....is it still a viable effect?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 12:10 am 
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exodus wrote:
Actually, the most interest I get in the trick come from just popping it to the top of the pack. Once the interest is built, I do it with a bend, then make it jump higher, which would be a Card to Mouth. If you clutter it up with the card jumping everywhere, no one can follow what's going on. They have no frame of reference and nothing to burn, which is the goal of this trick. You give them the chance to burn every movement and they still can't follow you. It really sets them up to just stop burning your every move, if that's there goal.


That's where my routine ends up, going to the top, but I don't make a point of it until about halfway through the routine. I'll have to get a video of it up to show what I mean, but it seems to work.

-JT


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 Post subject: Re: The ACR....is it still a viable effect?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 2:04 am 
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Many magician's are so strict about the ACR. "It must always go to the top!". Do you think the performer cares. Yes if you want to keep in tradition do so... I like performing my ACR as Dai did. When he performed for soldiers during WWII in Korea he would just get someone to NAME a card rather than pick it. Like he said, everyone does this lame pick a card trick stuff, it's like feeding poison to the audience. So get them to shuffle the deck and name a card. Reveal it suddenly in a clever fashion have them sign it. Then for the entire evening you would performing effects with just that signed card. Doing an ACR, bring to top, bottom, color changes, impossible places, to the mouth, classic force, here then there, torn restored etc...He did this trick all around Korea and it was known as the 'Jack of Hearts trick' just because that's the card someone called the first time he did. It was spread all around from village to village, "do the Jack of Hearts trick, do the jakc of hearts trick!" Neat story :)


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