View Cart | View Account | Help
Order by phone: 800-880-2592
Check out our favorite NEW ARRIVALS
Need it fast? Order before 4pm Eastern and your order ships SAME DAY.

All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 27 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

Do you think learning perfect suffles is useful?
Faro: yes, Riffle: yes (for practical use in card magic) 37%  37%  [ 7 ]
Faro: yes, Riffle: yes (as an academic exercise only) 11%  11%  [ 2 ]
Faro: yes, Riffle: no 26%  26%  [ 5 ]
Faro: no, Riffle: yes 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Faro: no, Riffle: no 26%  26%  [ 5 ]
Total votes : 19
Author Message
 Post subject: the Perfect shuffle...is it a thing of the past?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 5:20 pm 
User avatar
Offline
born to perform.

Joined: 28 May 2007
Posts: 2753
So Brian Tudor admits in his generation extreme video that the perfect riffle shuffle is one of the more difficult skills to learn. I sat there thinking, "why the edited would I want to do that?" I'd have to shuffle the deck 7 times to put it back in order. I can just imagine putting myself and my audience to sleep while I attempt such a feat. I can think of about 4 different in the hands false riffles and a few more table moves that accomplish the same feat more efficiently.

Then there is the perfect Faro shuffle. I've seen a few threads on this forum asking for advice on this. Recently, while browsing the T11 1on1 section, I came across a download that teaches both the Faro shuffle and a false Faro shuffle. In my mind that seems to put the need for the perfect Faro in to question as well.

I can certainly understand the desire of some to learn these moves as an academic exercise but is that all they are? With the many false shuffles available to magicians do these moves have any practical use in a repertoire?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: the Perfect shuffle...is it a thing of the past?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 5:42 pm 
User avatar
Offline
born to perform.

Joined: 17 Jul 2003
Posts: 2941
Location: Greensburg PA Ring 158
I voted yes to both. A perfect Faro has a ton of practical applications. And while it is simpler than a perfect riffle it doesn't look quite as natural.

Unshuffled should be reason enough to learn a perfect faro. While going through my tapes and videos recently I have found some effects that are quite strong that rely on a perfect faro to show a shuffle and get the cards in the order at the same time. I used to pass these effects up but I am currently reconsidering learning a perfect faro as the effects are so strong.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: the Perfect shuffle...is it a thing of the past?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 5:50 pm 
User avatar
Offline
born to perform.

Joined: 28 May 2007
Posts: 2753
I see...so the deck starts in new deck order and is suffled two or three times and that puts you into the stack needed?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: the Perfect shuffle...is it a thing of the past?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 5:56 pm 
User avatar
Offline
born to perform.

Joined: 17 Jul 2003
Posts: 2941
Location: Greensburg PA Ring 158
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDA5cpSRQ6A
There's a performance of unshuffled...

Also, in most of the faro applications it was one or two shuffles in the context of an effect. Bill Malone has a great use for an ace cutting routine on Here I go Again.

Marlo's Miracle Aces: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwtE5jmSjfc

The idea is to not shuffle the pack 13 times or whatever but is an efficient way to get several cards to a particular position in the pack by shuffling.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: the Perfect shuffle...is it a thing of the past?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 6:52 pm 
User avatar
Offline
born to perform.

Joined: 28 May 2007
Posts: 2753
The unshuffled was pretty cool but the Bill Malone performance was a good example of what I am talking about. While I don't know of any published effects that accomplish those ace revelations and spectator counting to card in the exact same way there are plenty other methods for both. The effects I am thinking of all require sleights that are easier to master and many of which are more dynamic and visual. Indeed I have seen Harry Loraine perform an effect in which the spectator picks a number, the magician cuts the pack that exact number of cards and the last card in the stack is the chosen card. There are several versions of this effect and I think most of them could be added as a last phase of an ace revelation. You would have the same routine only improved because for the last phase the spectator could pick how many cards to cut to. Furthermore, the routine could be accomplished with easier methods than a perfect shuffle.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: the Perfect shuffle...is it a thing of the past?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 7:52 pm 
User avatar
Offline
Moderator

Joined: 21 Feb 2003
Posts: 14016
Location: Las Vegas, NV/Albuquerque, NM/Pensacola, FL
I think the Faro is extremely useful, but only if you know what you're going to do with it. I don't think the Perfect Riffle Shuffle is something that one should be too concerned with. A Tabled Faro is a much easier way to accomplish the same thing. The Faro is hidden in an action that many lay people do and it's really pretty easy, once you understand where to put pressure. A perfect riffle shuffle would require so much practice and there aren't really any tricks that would require that over a Tabled Faro.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: the Perfect shuffle...is it a thing of the past?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 2:10 am 
Offline
born to perform.

Joined: 26 May 2004
Posts: 1691
I find it quite practical. You do not need to do it 8 times in a row in order for it to be useful. It going back to its original order after that sequence is simply one of its mathematical idioms. I can do it flawless once or twice easy, especially with a key card...

It is all about Order & Disorder in a sense being about card displacement. To truly understand it, look in Expert to Card Technique (Braue & Hugard). Refer to page 146 -150 which talks and shows an image of the original order, then from there shows the order of each faro until the eighth. It also describes the endless belts, chart of 17, and 18th card law. So much use for this, even from the spectators view it is a complete legitimate shuffle, and it is!!

It can also be utilized just for packets or chunks of cards. ex, dealing 4 hands of a 5 card poker game (dealing face up clockwise) gets a great pokers hand, pick them up counter clockwise laying your hand on top of the 3rd,2nd,etc... Lay these cards on the deck and cut to the 10th card (key card), do a over/out faro twice brings them back to original order in a flash. No having to re-deal, thus keeps the deck back in perfect order. i.e. if you were utilizing a memorized decks or and stack.

It technically can also give you 8 memorized decks, plus bring you into all the stay stacks. Great for a cutting aces effects... Also get the book Mnenmonica (deals heavily with faro & antifaro concepts), which I believe has the most stunning complete undiscerning card magic to this day.

As to in the hands or on the table, I haven't practiced on a table much but I can do it in my hands in under a second, at worst, 1 second or a 2nd try (with out a key card...)

ps. Tudor also says the Charlier cut sucks. It is a beautiful classic cut where much manipulation is derived from.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: the Perfect shuffle...is it a thing of the past?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 9:05 pm 
Offline
born to perform.

Joined: 22 Sep 2009
Posts: 581
Location: Over there
no need for either with the stripper deck.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: the Perfect shuffle...is it a thing of the past?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 9:10 pm 
User avatar
Offline
born to perform.

Joined: 28 May 2007
Posts: 2753
mchkeegan wrote:
no need for either with the stripper deck.

You need to move past the stripper deck. Good way to get started in card magic and do powerful tricks quickly but you don't want it to become a crutch.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: the Perfect shuffle...is it a thing of the past?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 9:38 pm 
User avatar
Offline
born to perform.

Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Posts: 1335
Location: Penguin's Most Feared Intellect
Adammcd wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDA5cpSRQ6A
There's a performance of unshuffled...

Also, in most of the faro applications it was one or two shuffles in the context of an effect. Bill Malone has a great use for an ace cutting routine on Here I go Again.

Marlo's Miracle Aces: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwtE5jmSjfc

The idea is to not shuffle the pack 13 times or whatever but is an efficient way to get several cards to a particular position in the pack by shuffling.

Futhermore, for the Miracle Aces, you don't need a perfect faro. Only the first 12 cards need to be perfect.

mchkeegan wrote:
no need for either with the stripper deck.


Was that a serious response?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: the Perfect shuffle...is it a thing of the past?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 9:16 pm 
User avatar
Offline
Moderator

Joined: 21 Feb 2003
Posts: 14016
Location: Las Vegas, NV/Albuquerque, NM/Pensacola, FL
If someone hands you a pack of cards, you can't say "Oh, these aren't stripped, so I can't do any magic". I mean, you can, but it's probably not going to work out too well.

For all the people that say No, especially to both, I'd love to hear your reasons.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: the Perfect shuffle...is it a thing of the past?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 10:58 pm 
User avatar
Offline
born to perform.

Joined: 28 May 2007
Posts: 2753
I guess for me it is a matter of cost(amount of time I'll need to dedicate to learn such a skill) benefit(the types of tricks I can do with a sleight and how hard hitting are they). Getting into a stack, as pointed out by Adammcd, seems the most practical use for such a move. I know a few stack effects but I find that a few false shuffles and cuts is all I need to protect my stack. Josh Jay has a particularly nice stack effect that uses almost 1/2 the deck. With only modest card control skills you can still keep the stack secured on the bottom of the deck while performing other effects and then control the stack to the top and perform the effect.

I did quite enjoy the "unshuffled" effect but so far it is the only effect that I have seen that I can't think of a way to recreate using simpler methods. Mnemonica is on my list and perhaps when I get it I'll gain a deeper appreciation for perfect shuffles. In the mean time, or until someone can direct me to some more hard hitting effects using the perfect shuffle, I'll stand by my opinion that this skill seems to have more academic than practical uses.

I certainly don't mean to diminish the abilities of those who have acquired this skill. Indeed I admire you for your dedication! I just question practical value of the skill itself.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: the Perfect shuffle...is it a thing of the past?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 11:56 pm 
User avatar
Offline
Moderator

Joined: 21 Feb 2003
Posts: 14016
Location: Las Vegas, NV/Albuquerque, NM/Pensacola, FL
Logical. I learned the Faro specifically for Unshuffled. I had always wanted to be able to do it consistently, but that was the trick that sold me on it. I see very few tricks using the Faro that don't look suspicious. Martin Nash released some great gambling routines with the Tabled Faro, but I just don't see them as practical to 98% of performers. Darwin Ortiz has a few routines in his Ephemeral Lecture Notes that use the standard Faro. A couple of them are pretty nice. though. Currently, I only use the Faro for a couple of tricks. I use it for a Collector's routine that I worked out and Unshuffled. I can't think of any others. I will demonstrate it quite a bit, though. I do the move and then show exactly what the shuffle did. People don't seem to be able to put together any real world applications for the move and are always impressed by it. It's a great demonstration of skill that doesn't look like you're showing off.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: the Perfect shuffle...is it a thing of the past?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 1:32 am 
Offline
born to perform.

Joined: 26 May 2004
Posts: 1691
Yes Exodus I too use it sometimes just do it as a flourish but then feel guilty that I am showing a sleight in some regards. But yes, people are very impressed by it. I build it right up as well, like a piece, telling them everything I`m doing. Splitting it exactly in half and weave them one over one. Then table spread or jumbo fan, people are amazed! It is such a skill, especially when you can repeat it over and over.

Please inform me of this trick Unshuffled. I feel like I should know it... Who thought it up, what books and what`s the premise|plotÉ What book or video, who is known for performing itÉ Actually ill`just youtube it right now. But please, do tell.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: the Perfect shuffle...is it a thing of the past?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 1:38 am 
Offline
born to perform.

Joined: 26 May 2004
Posts: 1691
Okay, just seen some vids. That is sick!


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 27 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2009 Penguin Magic, Inc.