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 Post subject: Kid's, Magic, And Religion
PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 4:08 pm 
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Joined: 16 Aug 2006
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Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Sometimes, we have no answer. Here's one I have no answer to.

A christian friend of mine recently brought up that performing magic for the young ones is especially dangerous (over adults) as they can believe in 'magic,' that it's real (this is also true to adults but it may be more so with kids).

Now, I have read answers to this at another site but even that site didn't give any scriptural quotes as to the acceptance of magic of any kind (even the entertainment kind - not to my memory anyway).

Since I consider myself to have strong biblical values, I'm wondering if magic and kids is appropriate.

I haven't stopped in any way and am currently building up two new kid shows, but still I must ask, is there any spiritual danger to kids and magic?


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 Post subject: Re: Kid's, Magic, And Religion
PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 4:17 pm 
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Id say no, their family and friends will brainwash them or what not enough on their own. :P
As long as you do it in an entertaining fashion and dont try to sway them one way or the other, its all good in the hood.

Some people are more crazy and conservative than the regulars. Thats their problem.
If they "Ban" or look down on magic; next would be harry potter, twilight, and stuff like that. Even disney, which all is based on "magic" in some form.


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 Post subject: Re: Kid's, Magic, And Religion
PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 8:13 pm 
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nah...now some religions DO forbid the viewing of magic...like Jehova's Whitness...I had a girl get up and leave during a show one time because she's not supposed to watch anything that involves, magic, faries, wizards, witches, etc.

I think it enhances imagination and creative thinking. It can instill a sense of "Maybe there is a way to make the impossible...POSSIBLE!", and from this mindset you get people who create and invent. Many of the things you see today in technology are incredible, and if you were to take them into the past, before they existed people would more than likely consider it "Magic".

As long as you keep it entertaining and you don't reinforce that magic is real, and it's some special force that you must attain and possess...then there shouldn't be a problem. There are worst things in the world.

Now...sure....children may believe in magic, but they will come to an age in a few years when all the sudden they begin realizing how things work and that there is a trick to everything. When this happens, they'll more than likely grow out of that "I believe in Magic" mindset. it's not a permanent state of mind...


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 Post subject: Re: Kid's, Magic, And Religion
PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 12:02 pm 
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DavidTheCryptic wrote:
Id say no, their family and friends will brainwash them or what not enough on their own. :P


I'm glad you said it. I couldn't really find a way to say it that I didn't think would end up getting the thread locked.

Honestly... the idea that magicians will send you to he11 if you watch them do their evil palming and double lifts... ugh... religion... :roll:


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 Post subject: Re: Kid's, Magic, And Religion
PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 9:28 am 
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born to perform.

Joined: 10 Nov 2004
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Sneak, I consider myself to be a religious person, not over-the-top, but religious. I see nothing wrong with magic & children. I think every child deserves to believe in magic. And, if you think about it--- children are supposed to believe in miracles and what is more magical than that? Everything in life is about faith. We believe what we cannot see when it comes to God. In magic we are just believing in what we see. As stated by others, children will soon outgrow this belief in magic--- so let them believe in the mystery of magic as long as they can.

Oh, and my sister-in-law IS pretty fanatical when it comes to religion and her girls LOVE watching Danielle perform and my SIL has no problem with it. Couple of cute stories I could tell you about in regards to that--- but it will have to wait until another time, I am off to work!


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 Post subject: Re: Kid's, Magic, And Religion
PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 11:44 am 
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born to perform.

Joined: 17 Jul 2003
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Location: Greensburg PA Ring 158
Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny are christian creations (helped along by toy and candy corporations). Beyond that you have the tooth fairy. Gospel magic is alive and strong. Some christian conservatists don't believe in the fantastic. But people still want magicians for their kids birthday parties. There are particular church groups that think cards are dangerous and whatever. I think, and this is a bit philosophical, that you have to be strong in your beliefs. The reason people need to be firm in their beliefs is because others are just as firm.

Hope that helps.

Adam


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 Post subject: Re: Kid's, Magic, And Religion
PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 12:20 pm 
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Thanks, guys and gals, for your answers. It is appreciated.

A brief little history of myself is that before I started magic, I was deep into christianity for about a decade. Around 1999-2000, I kind of slowed down from an almost fanatical sense. Soon after (mid-2000), I caught the magic bug and have been in it ever since. But when I used to be that christian, I, too, was 100% against magic of any kind.

Now, I feel magic is okay because spiritually, I don't really have any ill feelings about it and I truly enjoy performing. In other words, I don't feel the Holy Spirit is leading me away from it.

The type of magic I perform is one of fun and entertainment, for people both young and old, to simply have a great time.

The scriptures really do seem to hint that being involved (or trying to be) in the real deal of magic like psychic readers and the like is where the line is drawn.

That said, these answers may not convince some of those christians who oppose magic of any kind and it's hard to answer the questions that I have had or may have (I know the christian thinking, remember, it's just hard to answer sometimes).

It's simply this (and remember, many christians will only accept answers if the Bible agrees with the answer): The word 'magic' in the Bible is always referred to something evil. When something 'magical' was performed by a saint/christian in the Bible, it was always the real deal, not fake and/or deceptive of any kind which entertainment magic tricks such as sleights and gimmicks are. And any miracles of God were always called miracles, wonders, signs, etc... never 'magic.'

I can always go on and say that perhaps it's a talent God has given me but they may go ahead and say that it may not be a God given talent and use an example like a professional thief, do you (I) think that's a God given talent?

One other thing I remember from when I was a regular at Church and magic was a topic was that the scriptures say 'Satan can appear as an angel of light' meaning that magicians may think that magic is okay but is it really?

The reason I started this thread which I didn't mention in my first post was because in the upcoming summer, I may have an opportunity to present my new kids show I'm finishing off to a Church/kids camp, but I may run into opposition from some running it. Of course, I don't have to take this show(s) but I'd still like to have the best answers I can have to promote my art and myself as a professional.

Kristen, I am curious with your SIL as to the questions I gave above, that is, on possible answers she may have. That's only if you have the time and there's no immediate rush, so whenever you get a chance. Thanks.

And again, thanks to everybody else here for your answers. This is a tough and unique one but I'm sure as it is with me it is with you, learning magic is a life long journey!


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 Post subject: Re: Kid's, Magic, And Religion
PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 3:12 pm 
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I have been performing magic since I was 14 years old. In 1984 I became a Christian. I was in my early 20's then and everyone said that being a Christian I couldn't be a magician also. Of course, being so young in the church, I didn't know any better, so I gave up performing.

As time went on, I didn't feel comfortable not performing and so, after a lot of agonising over it, I wrote to an Anglican vicar in the UK, who had his own TV show for a while, where he would perform magic. We wrote back and forth and it turned out that he was constantly getting letters saying, "...and you call yourself a Christian!" His explanation was this:

If you can help kids or adults to allow their imaginations to take flight. If you can help people to forget their problems and stresses for just a little while, and to allow them to feel a sense of wonder and to be entertained, then that is not a bad thing.

I’ve never forgotten that, and I now use that myself whenever I’m challenged as to the validity of magic.

I'm in a church now that welcomes what I do. Our God is a God of creativity and wonder and he gave us our talents. We need to use that talent to entertain.

Keep doing what you do.


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 Post subject: Re: Kid's, Magic, And Religion
PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 11:18 am 
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born to perform.

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Sneak, I guess I should have said this before as it might of helped you also. My daughter attends a private Catholic college prep school. She has not only been asked to do magic for the school, but also to host a school event all focused around "magic".

So apparently the school's administration, and the priest in charge of her school, have no issue with the art of magic in the form that we all represent.


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 Post subject: Re: Kid's, Magic, And Religion
PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 11:33 am 
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Joined: 16 Aug 2006
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Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Thanks again for the replies.

Just a quick note, I'm not considering on stopping magic or anything like that, it's just simply a difficult topic to answer questions to.

The people I might be dealing with are of the Pentacostal/Bapstist/Evangilical faiths, not Catholic. I do know that Catholics in general have no problem with magic (at least to my knowledge). There are some in these above mentioned Churches that I have talked with that have no problem with entertainment magic but then there are others who want nothing to do with magic of any kind in their Churches in any way.


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 Post subject: Re: Kid's, Magic, And Religion
PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 8:28 pm 
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I really like this way of how Mike Bliss comes across it. Sorry if your not religious . He is, I am, so i like it. I would not do it unless it was for a religious event or okay since some people are not okay with hearing about god or anything.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqdiBGitkVw

I like how he just comes across stating its not real, bringing magic into it.


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 Post subject: Re: Kid's, Magic, And Religion
PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2010 7:08 pm 
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born to perform.

Joined: 04 Aug 2003
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Location: Loveland,Ohio (Cincy)
Duane Laflin does Christian magic shows and does a great job. You can go to his site and find lots of ideas on how to stuff. Laflin magic.


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 Post subject: Re: Kid's, Magic, And Religion
PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 8:26 am 
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born to perform.

Joined: 05 Jan 2007
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Location: Visit my blog at magic-yeti.blogspot.com
Most of the magicians in my IBM ring are devout Christians. When we do our annual charity show (often for a Christian-based charity and always at a church) the MC explains that magic is an illusion and for entertainment. He says "I believe in miracles, but what we do is only illusion. Only God has the power to do real miracles." Then he launches into the torn and restored newspaper to illustrate that would you see is not always reality. It's a great way to set the tone.

Of course, you can always go to the Fellowship of Christian Magicians web site and find their well thought out reasoning and study into what the scriptures really have to say.

http://fcm.org/

Tim W


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 Post subject: Re: Kid's, Magic, And Religion
PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 6:39 pm 
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born to perform.

Joined: 28 Jan 2009
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Location: Kettle Falls, WA
The idea that magic is not appropriate for kids has no biblical grounding in my opinion. Many Christians, including myself and pastor of my church, actually think magic is important in keeping kids interested in church! My pastor has the worst presentation of the coloring book you have ever seen, but he loves to do it for children. Draw your own conclusions.

Ted


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 Post subject: Re: Kid's, Magic, And Religion
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 1:26 am 
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born to perform.

Joined: 13 Aug 2005
Posts: 759
Location: Nor Cal.
Hey Sneak,
Let me start off by saying that I am a devout Christian and plan to be a Youth Pastor--I fully plan to use magic in my ministry. As for Biblical evidence stating that it is ok to perform magic, there is none that I am aware of. You said this camp would be mostly Evangelical/Baptist/Pentecostal? If that is the case, I think you should be fine. My guess would be that it would be mostly Orthodox people that would have a problem. That being said, personally, I don't know ANY Christians who are opposed to magic, so I may be off on that. I can tell you that i know Evangelical/Baptist/Pentecostals personally that are all ok with it.
Make it clear that nothing that you are doing is real, and I doubt that you will have any objections.


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