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 Post subject: Quiting magic? What should I do?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 4:28 pm 
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Hey everyone, I just really need advice....
My dad HATES MAGIC, with a passion and he caught me making a video of a card trick, and I got REALLY busted. Btw, I'm 16, and yeah I'm probably to old to be like... controlled like that, but he really got crazy, and threatened to kick me out the house if I don't stop. He says the bible doesn't allow magic, but I did my studies and creating illusions, and sleight of hand is nothing wrong. But he will not even listen to one word, he is closed minded.
I went to all my friends, and my best friend didn't help much, she really just says "his house his rules, you have no say" witch I find stupid, because it doesn't make sense to be in prison, in your own house... And she never really liked my magic, I could do the most coolest trick, and she doesn't even care or say thats cool, she just point something out that doesn't even relate to the trick, like my shirt or bed spreads. So I really don't have support from my friends and family, only my little bro who is some what interested and understands... But he is still little, he will do what our dad says. I am thinking of quiting magic completely. I don't want to at ALL, I love doing magic, getting people to laugh, cry, and run away with their shirts off. And I am pretty good too... But lets say I leave at 18, and be a magician, what will happen when I visit? My dad calling me satan and not talking to me... I don't know what to do.... What should I do? :(


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 Post subject: Re: Quiting magic? What should I do?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 4:53 pm 
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Wow! You dad seems a little extreme...There are actually Gospel Magicians. A few magic websites actually have a gospel magic section. Worldwideme...Web...is working on becoming a gospel magician. I'll PM him to notify him of your post. Perhaps he can offer some advice.


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 Post subject: Re: Quiting magic? What should I do?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 5:01 pm 
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I know, I don't want to be a gospel Magician... I believe in Gad and such, but I'm just tired that everyone thinks what we do, well SOME of us do is just is evil, when really its sleight of hand and illusions... I studied and the Bible says nothing about sleight of hand and stuff. I am not just a new guy to magic, I been doing it for nearly 2 years... I created like 6 of my own tricks, and I can learn a new trick very fast and easily. And I have done street magic in my town... So like... I FEEL like I have to give up magic, but I don't do want to AT ALL.


Last edited by EllusionistBrothers on Tue Sep 07, 2010 5:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Quiting magic? What should I do?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 5:01 pm 
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With all the wacky things kids do - drugs, alcohol, knocking up the neighbor's daughter ... you'd think he'd embrace a hobby like a magic. Oh well.


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 Post subject: Re: Quiting magic? What should I do?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 5:11 pm 
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Btw, this is my account, the one I posted with had its username screwed.


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 Post subject: Re: Quiting magic? What should I do?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 5:24 pm 
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I'm not particularly religious, but I looked up some Bible verses to see what it says. There are numerous negative passages on the subject of sorcery and mediumship. Deuteronomy 18:10 sums it up pretty succinctly. As is, in my opinion, the Bible's massive flaw, it can be interpreted however the reader sees fit. I'm sure both you and I imagine that passage to cover fraudsters, people who actually claim to possess the powers they demonstrate, whereas your father interprets it to include any sort of magician. If that's the case, surely he should include film-makers in that list, as what they do amounts to the same thing: conveying an act or event that didn't/couldn't happen for the purposes of entertainment. Where does it stop? Music players, because they give the impression that a live orchestra is present when in fact it isn't? I guess you could have one last attempt to reason with him.

But, no matter how wrong you think your father is, I'd say it's much more important that you keep your relationship with him, rather than break it up over something petty. You can always take magic up secretly once you've left home.


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 Post subject: Re: Quiting magic? What should I do?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 7:27 pm 
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My dad used to be a penticostal preacher for years until he had a massive stroke 10 years ago, but before all that he used to tell me that magic is against god and that I would goto edited for doing it. Things didn't change until I was in my twenties and he saw one of my shows, not a performance, a show. My dad realized that it is all tricks and started helping me to build some of the things and now he catches me on some of the effects now and then, but he understands that it is not black nor white magic it is just trickery for entertainment.

Zambini


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 Post subject: Re: Quiting magic? What should I do?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 12:41 am 
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I'd recommend showing him the website for the Fellowship of Christian Magicians. Whether you want to do gospel magic or not, showing him that it exists would have to show a distinction in what you're doing. It may not help, but it may be a push in the right direction. Beyond that, you're going to have to explain to him why you're interested in it, what it does for you, and that if he loves you, he has to at least hear you out. That's really all you can do. If he tries to force you to stop, point out the alternatives are to start drinking, doing drugs, and impregnating your peers, which is what most of the others your age are doing. In the long run, magic isn't really a bad choice between the others.


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 Post subject: Re: Quiting magic? What should I do?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 1:48 pm 
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Thanks everyone for your advice on this, I see that some of you recommend I show him a Gospel Magician Site, but I think that will make things worse, because we are not church people, we just read the bible and do our best to worship God. So by showing him a website like one that has beliefs different from our will lead him to believe I'm part of that gospel and BOOM, I'm out of the house... So complicated...


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 Post subject: Re: Quiting magic? What should I do?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 3:09 pm 
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Location: Newmarket, ON, Canada
EllusionistBrothers wrote:
Thanks everyone for your advice on this, I see that some of you recommend I show him a Gospel Magician Site, but I think that will make things worse, because we are not church people, we just read the bible and do our best to worship God. So by showing him a website like one that has beliefs different from our will lead him to believe I'm part of that gospel and BOOM, I'm out of the house... So complicated...


To note, you said you're 16 and him kicking you out of the house would be illegal. So if it does come to that, you can, if you so choose, decide to press charges against him. However, the results of this may not be something you'd like. Foster homes, etc. Most people would rather stay out of those places I assume. But it is something that your father cannot legally do since you're a dependent.


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 Post subject: Re: Quiting magic? What should I do?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 8:19 pm 
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EllusionistBrothers, You said you are 16, so the only answer to your problem is exactly what your friends told you. i.e. "his house, his rules." However that should not stop your interest in magic. It just causes a "vacation" from magic for you. Then when you get a job and move on your own at age18, THEN you can get as involved as you want. Don't crap where you eat by making your father angry. Compromise, follow his rules until majority then make your own rules.

Paddy


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 Post subject: Re: Quiting magic? What should I do?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 10:03 pm 
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Location: Newmarket, ON, Canada
paddy wrote:
EllusionistBrothers, You said you are 16, so the only answer to your problem is exactly what your friends told you. i.e. "his house, his rules." However that should not stop your interest in magic. It just causes a "vacation" from magic for you. Then when you get a job and move on your own at age18, THEN you can get as involved as you want. Don't crap where you eat by making your father angry. Compromise, follow his rules until majority then make your own rules.

Paddy


I'd suggest you follow this advice more so than continuing on with magic and having the threat of legal action behind you... just do what paddy suggests instead and you'll probably be better off.


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 Post subject: Re: Quiting magic? What should I do?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 10:58 pm 
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Bummer. I hope that you father's extreme interpretation of Christianity doesn't chase you away from God.

I agree with Paddy as well. Bide your time at home and follow his rules. I would go the FCM web site and read their take on the gospel passages that relate to magic and such. It would at least make you more informed when you find yourself in a discussion with your dad about what the bible really has to say about the issue.

As for what to do after you turn 18. After you've moved out at 18, you are in a better position to discussion the topic with you father. Tell him you love and respect his views but that there are thousands of Christian magicians that interpret the gospel differently. Approaching the issue with love instead of anger might be fruitful but it might take years to melt through that prejudice.

As to your comment about not being church people. That may be part of the problem. Christians are not called to be Christians in isolation. There quite a few passages in the New Testament that calls believers to be with other Christians. Perhaps this isolation is what is contributing to his twisting of the message.

And as for your fear of your dad calling you "satan" keep in mind that your dad is not the giver of your salvation. That only comes from the grace of God. That would just be a form of verbal abuse and you are best to ignore such language.

Good luck and God bless.

Tim


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 Post subject: Re: Quiting magic? What should I do?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 11:13 pm 
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Lawboy wrote:
I'm not particularly religious, but I looked up some Bible verses to see what it says. There are numerous negative passages on the subject of sorcery and mediumship. Deuteronomy 18:10 sums it up pretty succinctly.


"Let no one be found among you who sacrifices his son or daughter in [a] the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft, 11 or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead."

Of course, that is not what magicians do. At least I've never heard of a Christian magician actually calling on demons or sacrificing their children. That scripture refers to people actually trying to practice real magic with evil purposes. You are right that the bible is open for interpretation. However, that is not to say that we can't figure out the meanings of most of the scriptures. That is why there are so many translations.

A lot of the bible is very easy to understand. However, with many scriptures it helps to read several translations and understand the geo-political landscape of the times in which it was written. Sometimes, after you get a more complete picture the meaning is completely different than a modern-day, English reading of the text.

From the FCM web site

Quote:
When the Bible uses the term "magic" (e.g. Exodus 22:14) or "sorcery" (Deuteronomy 18:11 et al.) or "ventriloquism" (e.g. Isaiah 8:19), it is clearly dealing with man's involvement in the supernatural, often with the collaboration of evil spirits. The context of the Bible prohibitions make it clear that God does not want man to dabble in games with the devil. Today's manifestations of these forbidden activities are such things as ouija boards, tarot cards, the occult and horoscopes. The Christian has no business playing with these, since they open the door to demonic influence.

A problem rises from the fact that certain words have two meanings. "Magic" has the meaning of witchcraft or sorcery, but the word also means sleight of hand and illusion, the surprising and fascinating modern entertainment medium. Obviously the Bible is talking about the first of these meanings and not the second


Tim


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 Post subject: Re: Quiting magic? What should I do?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 11:15 pm 
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This is a great discussion, and some really great resources have been brought up. Good stuff, guys!

-JT


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