View Cart | View Account | Help
Order by phone: 800-880-2592
Check out our favorite NEW ARRIVALS
Need it fast? Order before 4pm Eastern and your order ships SAME DAY.

All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 30 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Derren Brown ever cheat?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 2:50 pm 
Offline
born to perform.

Joined: 13 Jun 2010
Posts: 540
Ever notice how neither Michael Ammar nor the Masked Magician have ever been accused of cheating?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Derren Brown ever cheat?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 3:24 pm 
User avatar
Offline
born to perform.

Joined: 07 Aug 2009
Posts: 2948
Location: Sunny Orlando
miniserb725 wrote:
Might I ask how that's cheating? To me it just sounds like a bad premise for a card change.

-JT


Well if it was to be used during a game it would deff be considered it... like I said it just happened to be this guys particular patter, which I admit wasn't great, but I could make an argument of using a DL during a card game and the being considered cheating... IMO that is


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Derren Brown ever cheat?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 9:30 pm 
User avatar
Offline
born to perform.

Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Posts: 3462
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
So are you saying that every move used in a gambling demo is "cheating" because that's what you're demonstrating? Because I think it's safe to assume that yes, sleights are cheating in games, but in magic they are just another tool.

-JT


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Derren Brown ever cheat?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 9:35 pm 
User avatar
Offline
born to perform.

Joined: 07 Aug 2009
Posts: 2948
Location: Sunny Orlando
miniserb725 wrote:
So are you saying that every move used in a gambling demo is "cheating" because that's what you're demonstrating? Because I think it's safe to assume that yes, sleights are cheating in games, but in magic they are just another tool.

-JT


Haha it looks like we were both saying the same thing... just over complicating it


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Derren Brown ever cheat?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 10:54 pm 
User avatar
Offline
born to perform.

Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Posts: 3462
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Just making sure I wasn't confused. Cheers!

-JT


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Derren Brown ever cheat?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 6:13 am 
User avatar
Offline
born to perform.

Joined: 28 Dec 2002
Posts: 4064
Location: London, England
I suppose it's possible to have multiple uses of the word "cheating". I would personally consider magic tricks as a way of cheating at real magic. Then on top of that, camera tricks are a way of cheating at magic tricks.

So someone doing a camera trick claiming it's a magic trick is like someone doing a magic trick claiming it's real magic.

I would also consider magic as a way of cheating at card sharkery, which in turn is a way of cheating at luck.

So, if there's a gambling demo claiming to show real gambling techniques, and a magic trick is performed, that's cheating; if it's a demo on how to appear to be good at gambling by using magic tricks, then that's fine.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Derren Brown ever cheat?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 12:43 pm 
User avatar
Offline
born to perform.

Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Posts: 3462
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
But is it cheating in the sense that someone is losing out on something while another party gains?

-JT


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Derren Brown ever cheat?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 7:26 pm 
User avatar
Offline
born to perform.

Joined: 28 Dec 2002
Posts: 4064
Location: London, England
My previous post used "cheating" to mean "faking". Yes, you can also use it to mean "swindling". That's why the word causes so many problems in magic-related topics because it can be interpreted in so any g----mn ways.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Derren Brown ever cheat?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 7:37 pm 
User avatar
Offline
born to perform.

Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Posts: 3462
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Personally I take all sleight of hand or deception as "cheating", so I don't really see it as a bad thing in a magic context.

-JT


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Derren Brown ever cheat?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 8:49 am 
User avatar
Offline
Penguin

Joined: 01 Nov 2010
Posts: 9
Location: Asia
Derren is great, besides there is no "cheating" in magic :wink:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Derren Brown ever cheat?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 2:52 pm 
User avatar
Offline
Penguin

Joined: 24 Apr 2007
Posts: 485
Location: California
I remember watching a couple episodes where Derren Brown caused one man to think he was actually inside a first person shooter with zombies. On another episode he somehow convinced another person that he was a Ventriloquist doll and then on another episode he put one person into what seemed like a catatonic trance inside a picture booth for a passport, only to wake up in a completely different country. The name of where he went is eluding me at the moment, but it was quite the interesting episode.

Upon doing more research and also re-watching the episodes, I wonder if the statement that Derren Brown made about watching the participants over the course of a few weeks or a month, so that he would be sure that they were the ideal person he needed to accomplish the specific experience he had planned for them. However, since Mentalists have and still do use confederates, maybe not as much in this day and age, as opposed to years and years ago. Although that is just my opinion, and I will happily stand corrected if I am indeed wrong in my thought process :wink:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Derren Brown ever cheat?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 4:49 pm 
User avatar
Offline
born to perform.

Joined: 28 Dec 2002
Posts: 4064
Location: London, England
Rozzerdog wrote:
The name of where he went is eluding me at the moment


Marrakech, Morocco.

In his latest special, "Hero at 30,000ft", he uses the same sort of technique on a spectator in an aeroplane. In the show, the participant is given the opportunity to help land the plane when the pilot is incapacitated. When he agrees, Derren hypnotises him and wakes him up in a flight simulator for the actual landing.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Derren Brown ever cheat?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2010 10:21 pm 
User avatar
Offline
Penguin

Joined: 13 Dec 2004
Posts: 326
Location: Hattiesburg, MS or Provo, UT Depending on the season.
The invisibility effect is an actual hypnotic phenomenon. Again while no one knows what's going on in hypnosis it appears to be an achievable phenomenon. The laughter can be explained from the view that the participant was nervous, especially with the idea of suddenly not being able to see someone they can hear and see the effects of. So just because there was laughter doesn't mean we can assume it was because he felt the need to fake it or wasn't really experiencing the invisibility phenomenon. Just because he didn't experience it how you thought it should be experienced doesn't mean he didn't experience it.

As for cheating, that's what we all do. She used the term cheating because she's under the impression he's for real, and through a lapse of technique found out he's not really psychic. That's all that happened here.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Derren Brown ever cheat?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 9:16 am 
User avatar
Offline
Penguin

Joined: 15 Sep 2010
Posts: 339
In all respect I think Derren Brown uses stooges. Why do I care? Because some of the effects he does just yells "stooge" or "camera trick" to the audience. The audience doesn't care if your method is "legit" if they are suspecious of a stooge or a camera trick. This means that some tricks that play huge in front of a close up audience don't play very well on TV because of the fact that people know about editing and stooges. Eventhough you're not, you will never convince the at home audience otherwise. This also means that every time someone on TV does an effect that could have been accomplished by using a stooge, he contributes to the at home audiences perception of magic... "They all use camera tricks and stooges, so why am I watching this?"

...Maybe I'm being a bit hard on him?


-Widding


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Derren Brown ever cheat?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 2:27 pm 
User avatar
Offline
born to perform.

Joined: 28 Dec 2002
Posts: 4064
Location: London, England
Derren Brown, Tricks of the Mind, p. 18 wrote:
I have never used stooges in my work. … to me such a route is artistically repugnant and simply unnecessary. And I can't imagine what it would cost to silence such people after the event. Secondly, I would not want any participant to watch the show when it airs and see a different or radically re-edited version of what he understood to have happened.


To be honest, I think he tells the truth. While he denies using paid stooges and camera trickery, this does not rule out instant stooges, nor camera editing, both of which I know first hand that he does use.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 30 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2009 Penguin Magic, Inc.