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 Post subject: Beginning Coin Magic
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 4:34 am 
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born to perform.

Joined: 22 Jun 2009
Posts: 908
Hey guys,

I was looking at getting into coin magic and was looking for some opinions as to which DVD I should start with. Basically I have two options, In The Beginning There Were Coins by Jay Noblezada or Metal by Eric Jones.

Now before I get people's opinions and their preferences, I just want you to know, you cannot recommend any books to me because I don't like books to learn from. Yes Bobo's is the definitive word on coins but no books.

So tell me which of these you'd go for, or, if you had a better alternative (again, only DVDs, no books) then feel free to tell me.


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 Post subject: Re: Beginning Coin Magic
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 6:51 am 
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Location: of my spongeballs eludes me.
Definitely Jay's vid and anything by Craig Petty; Flipped Out (one will need a Flipper coin too), Split Happens (will need a Split coin), or if one can afford it his Mirage set.


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 Post subject: Re: Beginning Coin Magic
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:00 am 
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EZrhythm wrote:
Definitely Jay's vid and anything by Craig Petty; Flipped Out (one will need a Flipper coin too), Split Happens (will need a Split coin), or if one can afford it his Mirage set.


Thanks for the reply kind sir.


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 Post subject: Re: Beginning Coin Magic
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:20 am 
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Location: of my spongeballs eludes me.
If Penguin doesn't have the denomination coin you are interested respectively, one may order the coin in ANY denomination from World Magic Supply.


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 Post subject: Re: Beginning Coin Magic
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 12:49 pm 
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Joined: 06 Sep 2010
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KrisDeagle wrote:
Hey guys,

just want you to know, you cannot recommend any books to me because I don't like books to learn from. Yes Bobo's is the definitive word on coins but no books.


This will serve you poorly when you ask for DVDs on theory.


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 Post subject: Re: Beginning Coin Magic
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 1:03 pm 
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Location: Arlington, TX
IMHO Roth is better than Jay's:

http://www.penguinmagic.com/product.php?ID=S11137

There's many sleights and great tricks on there.


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 Post subject: Re: Beginning Coin Magic
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 4:39 pm 
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Thanks for the replies and will definitely check that one out Akira.


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 Post subject: Re: Beginning Coin Magic
PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 8:50 am 
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DO NOT GET JAY'S DVD! Seriously, don't. Get Roth's DVDs instead, way better. and if you can get David Stone's begginer coin magic vol 1, than get it too.


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 Post subject: Re: Beginning Coin Magic
PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:27 am 
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Any reason why you so adamantly are against Jay's video? It's loaded with good material by a guy that knows how to teach.


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 Post subject: Re: Beginning Coin Magic
PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:57 am 
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Magic_Bike wrote:
DO NOT GET JAY'S DVD! Seriously, don't. Get Roth's DVDs instead, way better. and if you can get David Stone's begginer coin magic vol 1, than get it too.

Whilst I do agree that the Roth set is the better resource, I don't think one should be so against ITBTWC - its not that bad.


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 Post subject: Re: Beginning Coin Magic
PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 10:06 am 
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I love the Roth set, but it does have some serious problems for 90+% of this generation's performers. Almost all of the material is performed seated, in a formal environment, which doesn't line up with how most people perform. He has a lot of material on the set that uses handkerchiefs, which no one carries anymore. All of his presentations have to be adjusted. That whole "That's a 50 cent piece, a solid silver coin, a half a dollar," etc thing just doesn't cut it for ANYONE that's not David Roth. For all the great theory and material, most of it needs to be updated.


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 Post subject: Re: Beginning Coin Magic
PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 2:42 pm 
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100% agree with X. I own David Stone's Vol. 1 and In the Beginning There Were Coins. I'll probably be getting Metal as my next purchase because I love Eric's work.

-JT


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 Post subject: Re: Beginning Coin Magic
PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 5:06 pm 
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So X, what would you recommend then?


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 Post subject: Re: Beginning Coin Magic
PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 6:40 pm 
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I've seen Jay's video and David Stone's set. Both are great. They're both worth looking into. Jay's has a lot of work on helping you develop your own routines and the routines that are there are designed for informal work, but work great in a walk around set. There are no special coins needed and the material, either. The David Stone set is filled with good, commercial coin routines. I go back to that set pretty often when I'm looking for new routines to work on. Either would be great.

Ben Salinas' Modern Coin Magic set is pretty good. Salinas himself is a little goofy, though, and I don't mean that in a Sankey way. He just comes off as a guy that's trying really hard to make people like him, instead of being natural. Other than that, there is some good material on the set. In fact, if you're not interested in getting a book like Bobo's right now, you should pick up this set and start going through it. After a bit, pick up the book and start going through it side by side with the video. That's how I recommend people work with Royal Road and Erdnase as well, now that good video sets have come out on all of them.

I haven't seen Eric Jones' Metal yet, but I'm sure it's packed with good material.

The Roth set is still extremely valuable, I just don't see it as the "be all, end all" set. After you've got a little knowledge under your belt, adjusting those effects isn't too difficult and is worth the effort.

My personal advice on coin magic is to first know that it's much harder than it originally comes off. Anyone can hold a coin in their hand secretly or do a French Drop. The difference between a magician and some shmuck doing really bad coin tricks is much different than it is with cards, which is why so many magicians stick to cards and don't start working on coins for years. Erdnase's classic lesson of "detect, let alone suspect" come in more so here than with cards. Coin magic is thought of in many circles and even in the classic books, as very rigid and tight. In 2010, natural is the key. If you're rigid and intense now, you're going to get caught. When you're getting started, even before you pick up a coin, stand in front of a mirror and just move naturally. Let your arms hang by their side, turn from side to side, pick a small object up and display it for others to see, transfer that same object into the other hand. Observe how you move. No one else moves exactly the same way you do. For that reason, no one will be able to teach you natural coin magic as well as you're own experimentation with other people's ideas. You also need to know that you should be using the lightest grip possible in any palm. If I'm Classic Palming a coin and someone taps the back of my hand, that coin won't stay there. It shouldn't. If I'm squeezing hard enough to hold that coin after a surprise "attack", I'm only fooling myself. The hand would be too cramped. Instead, loose, open and natural is the way to go. By using only the required pressure my hands are going to look much relaxed and I'm going to be able to adjust without having to contract the muscles as far, which is where most people get caught. Also, as with cards, subtlety is better than technique. If you have the option between Ramsay Subtlety and a natural gesture or an overly "movey" hand washing sequence, why would you go with moves? If the hand is empty, you're not going to show it by quickly rubbing the hands together in an odd way, you're just going to let them drop and swing or use them to point to something. That's a little of my theory on coin magic.


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 Post subject: Re: Beginning Coin Magic
PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 7:19 pm 
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Joined: 25 May 2009
Posts: 116
Location: Nashville, Indiana
I use 5 sources as my main info to practice. Some for the teaching of the sleights, some for the sleights and effects. I use:

"Expert Coin Magic" book by Roth
"Expert Coin Magic Made Easy" dvd set by Roth
"David Roth's Ultimate Coin Magic Collection" by Roth
"Modern Coin Magic" book by BoBo
"Modern Coin Magic" dvd set by Magic Makers

And now I've added "Metal" by Eric Jones

Don't look at Roth's "style", just absorb his teaching, the best in coin magic, my opinion....Eric Jones is closeto, if not equal to Roth's level in the instruction area.

I try to practice each day. I pick one sleight or a drill that uses more than one, then work it ten minutes minimum with various coins. Today I worked with a simple display to thumb palm to production drill, ten minutes with each of the following: Morgans, Ikes, North American Hunting Club Tokens (dollar size), Kennedy halves, Franklin halves, and Walking Libs.

Before I practice I decide what to work on, then review my notes regarding "tips" and "lessons learned" from past practice and each of the above references. Just please don't overlook Roth because of his style, his coin work is second to none and his instruction is the same....if you do avoid his info you're missing out.

Take care all......

p.s. something I've played with the last couple of yrs is to practice drills to music....I think it REALLY helps in establishing a rythym to the movement which is important in coin magic to avoid looking herky-jerky and un-natural......


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