which cups?

KingOfNynex2003 · **Joined:** 01 Sep 2008 **Posts:** 635 **Location:** Canada

I'm getting into performing close-up shows soon and I'm going to be performing at a fundraiser for Rachel Colombini's heart surgery sometime at the end of the month now and I'm wanting to perform the cups & balls illusion but the only cups I've got right now are the Penguin Cups and I don't like them that much anymore because I can't even fit one of those fake lemons inside of them easily so I'd like to get a set of cups that can easily hold a standard sized tennis ball or baseball or a pool ball and I saw on here a little while ago that there's some new Paul Fox Style cups which are supposedly able to hold a standard sized tennis ball but one thing I'd like to know is if anybody knows if they will nest properly because the Penguin Cups don't nest properly at all.

If anybody knows any other cups that nest properly and can also hold a standard sized tennis ball easily please let me know. Hope to hear from somebody soon.

Sincerely,

KingOfNynex2003

twist592 · **Posted:** Wed Nov 10, 2010 8:53 am

There are plenty of resources available.

If you need information on lots of different cups then join this page.
http://www.cupsandballsmuseum.org/index.htm

Look here for the Riser Standard Cups
http://www.jamesriser.com/Magic/JamesRiserMagic.html

RNT II also has a good selection
http://www.rnt2.com/index.php?target=categories&category_id=165

And one more (some really high end cups here)
http://www.sherwoodmagic.com/

Good Luck

Twist

paddy · **Posted:** Wed Nov 10, 2010 12:00 pm

Stay away from RNT! They have BIG problems with quality and delivery. I use Johnson Cups, they run around $300 but are worth it. Gazzo has a set also but his run over $500.

Paddy

acar · **Joined:** 17 May 2003 **Posts:** 1112

The Penguin Cups! And I'm not just saying that!

They're rugged, heavy, affordable, and will LAST.

Acar

miniserb725 · **Posted:** Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:27 pm

paddy wrote:

Stay away from RNT! They have BIG problems with quality and delivery. I use Johnson Cups, they run around $300 but are worth it. Gazzo has a set also but his run over $500.

Paddy

I don't own either set (I only have cheap Bazar di Magias).

However, RNT2 comes highly recommended from Bill Palmer. I've handled their cups (Foxy II's, JES Squatty, and Classic Cups) and they are GREAT. Check out the C&B Museum and see if you like some of their styles. They really have unique stuff.

Johnson Products use CNC machines for their cups, so they're fairly consistent. Supposedly great for the price.

If you have a spare $2000-4000 sitting around, Sherwoods are an option. Joe Porper makes a good cup from most reviews I've seen.

-JT

paddy · **Posted:** Wed Nov 10, 2010 3:29 pm

Yes Bill does say they make some good cups. BUT the problem started about 2 years ago when the owner said he got sick. The quality dropped like a rock and the delivery was on a "maybe" schedule. A lot of buskers on another forum even went so far as to ask Paypal for a refund due to no delivery after 3 months. He then claimed he sold to his daughter but nothing has improved.

The reason Bill won't bring that up is if you complain on The Magic Cafe about any sponsor, they ban you. Yes it's a lifetime ban, so Bill is not going to tell the truth about RNT. BTW Bobby Maverick, Kosmo, and Gazzo all think the same as I do about RNT.

Paddy

twist592 · **Posted:** Wed Nov 10, 2010 3:50 pm

I forgot to mention the Johnson Cups. I'm not sure how I forgot since I own a set and a chop cup from them as well. I certanily can't speak about the quality of the others since I have never handled them, I was just sharing ideas / options.

I wish I could get some Sherwood cups just because they are so beautiful. Well maybe someday......

Twist

miniserb725 · **Posted:** Wed Nov 10, 2010 6:16 pm

paddy wrote:

Yes Bill does say they make some good cups. BUT the problem started about 2 years ago when the owner said he got sick. The quality dropped like a rock and the delivery was on a "maybe" schedule. A lot of buskers on another forum even went so far as to ask Paypal for a refund due to no delivery after 3 months. He then claimed he sold to his daughter but nothing has improved.

The reason Bill won't bring that up is if you complain on The Magic Cafe about any sponsor, they ban you. Yes it's a lifetime ban, so Bill is not going to tell the truth about RNT. BTW Bobby Maverick, Kosmo, and Gazzo all think the same as I do about RNT.

Paddy

Well there is a new owner now, new site, and service has been bumped up (from what I hear). But caveat emptor as always.

-JT

paddy · **Posted:** Wed Nov 10, 2010 7:08 pm

Yes, the "new owner" is his daughter, she owns it in name only. They changed the name to "RNT2"

KingOfNynex2003 · **Joined:** 01 Sep 2008 **Posts:** 635 **Location:** Canada

acar wrote:

The Penguin Cups! And I'm not just saying that!

They're rugged, heavy, affordable, and will LAST.

Acar

I actually have the Penguin Cups but they can barely hold one of those fake lemons inside of them and they nest horribly.

KingOfNynex2003 · **Joined:** 01 Sep 2008 **Posts:** 635 **Location:** Canada

paddy wrote:

Stay away from RNT! They have BIG problems with quality and delivery. I use Johnson Cups, they run around $300 but are worth it. Gazzo has a set also but his run over $500.

Paddy

Yeah I'd love to get a set of Gazzo's cups but they're almost not available anywhere and they cost an arm and a leg and they're also really big so I don't need to have something that big because I just need to be able to fit some different types of balls into them like:

Tennis Balls

Baseballs

and maybe Pool Balls.

I've heard about those Johnson Cups and how great they are but I can't afford them right now, I'm just looking for something around the $100 price range that's not the Penguin Cups because I've already got a set of them but never use them for shows because they're not good for final loads and I even have a servante to make things easier for me to get my final loads.

DaveV · **Posted:** Wed Nov 10, 2010 10:18 pm

paddy wrote:

Yes, the "new owner" is his daughter, she owns it in name only. They changed the name to "RNT2"

I don't know why the date shows this year. What you're talking about with his daughter and the name change happened several years ago. They don't even own the company anymore.

Don Buckley bought the name and the equipment over a year and a half ago and moved the entire operation to Lakewood, OH. It's a whole new RNT2 than what it used to be. The quality is as high as ever (never an issue, even with the previous owners) and the business is running smoothly again.

DaveV · **Posted:** Wed Nov 10, 2010 10:22 pm

King of N,
There's a big difference in size and cost between Tennis Ball and Baseball sized cups. I had Softball size Super Jumbos for a long time before downsizing several times and settling on Tennis Ball size. Not that those are the only loads you can use, but it seems that we've resorted to sizing cups by what sporting balls will fit.

Moves that are comfortable with TB size can be nearly impossible with larger cups without flashing or fear of dropping.

Don't worry about visibility. From a moderate distance they won't notice a half inch or so in diameter. We only know the difference because we're the ones handling them. The audience really doesn't care one way or another.

You'll have to dig a little deeper. With the exception of the Penguin Cups you already have, no other cup of any quality will come close to the $100 mark. I'd expect $150-$250 would be a more reasonable figure if you really want to upgrade.

Another good resource not yet mentioned is www.cupscon.com It's where cup collectors and performers gather to swap tips and talk about possibly the oldest trick in the world.

DaveV · **Posted:** Wed Nov 10, 2010 10:46 pm

Okay, here are some tips on minimizing cost.

Don't get fixated on the idea of copper cups. Not all aluminum cups are created equal.

This is the lowest cost Tennis Ball size cup set I can find in satin copper for $224:
http://www.rnt2.com/index.php?target=pr ... t_id=30352

Here they are in mirror polished Aluminum for $149
http://www.rnt2.com/index.php?target=pr ... t_id=29909

Another tip? Satin finish still looks good (especially with copper and some aging behind it) and cost less to produce. I've owned both mirror polished and satin copper, and once they darken there's virtually no difference in looks.

The mirror polished Aluminum Foxy 2.5's drop to a more affordable $119 in satin finish.
http://www.rnt2.com/index.php?target=pr ... t_id=29794

Don't get hung up on Aluminum being "cheap" looking. Nobody will mistake these for the $20 aluminum imports. They were awful. These are worlds better in every way, and give you the size you're looking for.

KingOfNynex2003 · **Joined:** 01 Sep 2008 **Posts:** 635 **Location:** Canada

DaveV wrote:

King of N,
There's a big difference in size and cost between Tennis Ball and Baseball sized cups. I had Softball size Super Jumbos for a long time before downsizing several times and settling on Tennis Ball size. Not that those are the only loads you can use, but it seems that we've resorted to sizing cups by what sporting balls will fit.

Moves that are comfortable with TB size can be nearly impossible with larger cups without flashing or fear of dropping. I don't fear them dropping because I have a servante I bought from Dean Dill but when I try to get my fake lemons inside the cups they make a heck of a lot of noise and I need to push them into the cups to get them to fit into the Penguin Cups and that's not exactly a good thing for me to be doing.

Don't worry about visibility. From a moderate distance they won't notice a half inch or so in diameter. We only know the difference because we're the ones handling them. The audience really doesn't care one way or another.

You'll have to dig a little deeper. With the exception of the Penguin Cups you already have, no other cup of any quality will come close to the $100 mark. I'd expect $150-$250 would be a more reasonable figure if you really want to upgrade. I actually took a look at those Paul Fox Style cups and they claim to be able to hold a standard sized tennis ball very easily: http://www.penguinmagic.com/product.php?ID=S12896 and they're only going to be $100 for me at my local B&M shop so I'm debating about getting them because I'd really like to have them for when I do my fundraiser show for Rachel Colombini.

Another good resource not yet mentioned is http://www.cupscon.com It's where cup collectors and performers gather to swap tips and talk about possibly the oldest trick in the world.

Thanks for your suggestions and I really do appreciate the time you put into the replies to help me out but I think I'm going to go with the Paul Fox cups because not only do they look really good but they also will hopefully nest better than my Penguin Cups.

which cups?

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