These guys writing the "how to pick up women" books remind me of a puppy dog chasing cars. If they ever catch one what the he!! are they going to do with it.

I got engaged to the one I caught. Guess that was a pickup that went horribly wrong. It's not all about getting a physical relationship. The stuff they talk about is about avoiding the problems many people have with getting into conversations with people. Once again I'll ask, what's a guy supposed to do when he's extremely shy and can go from having all kinds of confidence when he's around people he knows to having none when it comes to approaching new potential friends? Should he just be left out in the cold? No, he should use whatever it takes to improve his status to the point he wants it to be.

Let's be honest here, how many guys here have used magic in some form to either meet or impress a girl in the past? Heck, that's why most guys start doing magic. It doesn't start out as something you're "doing to see the look of amazement and wonder on their faces as their souls dance with a rediscovering of true magic" or any of that crap. 90+% of guys start doing magic to meet girls. That's only if we're all being honest though.

What's wrong with an occassional cheap thrill with some gullible girl?

Why does she have to be gullible? Regardless to what you may want to believe, women aren't stupid. You can't trick them into going home with you. It's just no possible without chloroform or some other type of drug being involved.

you want to learn how to communicate with the opposite sex?

My advise go out and do it, try and experiment and find your own balance.

Don't be afraid to get rejected ect

ElC wrote
Exodus replied
Because that's the only type of girl that will date him.

Well I decided to take your advice. I feel that it is fair to say that I have not thrown my money and my time into this before so why not have a go? As luck would have it this same topic came up with a friend of mine. We went through the same back and forth discussion until I asked to borrow what ever he was learning from to try to see what others do in it?

He ended up giving me a video called Flawless Natural which seems to fit PERFECTLY into everything you are saying. It is advertised as a system that encourages you to be natural and it featured heavily on their site. So I hope you will not discredit my conclusions based on me having the wrong tape because if anything this sounds like the exact teaching you were talking about.

I popped in the first DVD and tried to keep an open mind. An open mind but not so open that my brains fall out. The Dvd was in a lecture format that any magician is familiar with with a young blonde talking. He almost immediately begins with a story of a girl accusing him and a friend of being a pick up artist. From his story it is clear that she was not happy about it. He went on to say that instead of simply "being natural" and fessing up he played dumb and pretended not to know what such a thing was. If you know that you are something specific that someone distastes you should not blatantly lie to get them in bed (which he often states is one of the main purposes).

Next came several stories of himself or others he had taught picking up women ending with the inspiring tale of a coke addicted chick he brought back to his hotel with a friend of his.

The whole set of DVDs was focused on methods of picking up women as fast as possible (such as "going full sexual") with little to no regard as to depth or the long term. But I suppose with the methods described and long term relationship becomes a pretty constant maintenance to maintain what with all the dishonesty.

The whole thing made me feel dirty. Hearing the ways women are manipulated and the eager cheers of those in the audience drooling to know more really turned me off. Over the DVDs women were catogorized as many things from Yuck women to High Value. Really? Like cuts of beef they grade women SOLELY on their physical appearance. I can not stress that enough. As part of the beginning you are asked to defing what features of a woman you found attractive. All the examples given were strictly physical. But I suppose later on you can find out who she really is while you are still lying.

I understand why people feel that they need to conform and be an "aggressor" or "ignite primal masculinity" (actual terms used in the lecture). They might feel uncomfortable with who they really are. The may have given up on themselves and have thus sought supplementation. Lets look into something many men say about women. If she is not comfortable with herself it is a turn off. I think the same applies here.

All in all I feel my previous ideas about this all were confirmed and magnified. When I found out the Disks set him back almost $300 I almost hit him. It is a scam preying on those not secure enough to feel safe in their own skin.


Oh, and when I use terms like "you" above I am not directing them at anyone in particular.


As always,
Dylan

That's totally understandable. It's not exactly a secret that the community is focused on guys getting laid, but really you can't argue with them "judging people like pieces of meat". You can't honestly tell me that you've never looked at an attractive woman without thinking "Wow, she's hot" or someone that you weren't attracted too and thought "Not a chance". These guys have just vocalized it, opposed to keeping it tucked away in their heads. As for denying what he was doing, if he's interested in the girl, why would he admit that that's what he does? She's already made it clear that she doesn't approve, so why would he say "oh yeah, that's how I make my living". That coke addict story also wasn't a story of his exciting adventures with drugs. It was a story of him discovering that this girl was an addict that started doing drugs in his hotel room, so he kicked her out because that wasn't his thing. Contrary to what you may want to believe, there are drug addicts out there and you're going to meet them if you go out. He was telling stories from his life.

I completely understand and respect your position on the PUA subject, but I know enough guys that have been helped by information they've learned from it, myself included. I didn't start looking into the stuff to hook up with people. I decided to look into it for the same reasons that people look into Tony Robbins or any other "life coach". The NLP concepts that I've learned from the PUA community have helped me get work, make friends, and break through personal barriers that I'd set up after failed relationships and bad situations. Where's the harm in that? How many introverted and/or Social Anxiety Disorder suffering people should have to live that way, when there are people out there willing to help? Besides, if there wasn't a demand, these guys wouldn't have to supply.

I agree with Juliegel here. I can't even watch past Tip/Rule number 3 in that video in the original post. It's a disgrace. Yes, being able to be more confident and talk to people is a good skill to learn but you should learn it from a much more wholesome source. Not from a source that's number one priority is to have sex with women. That's degrading and wrong. You don't have to get physical straight away like he says and if you base everything on a worldly perception like that, you're relationship (should you be lucky enough to get that far [Exodus]) will not be as deep as if you had've built the relationship as friends and worked on that then moving through that into a relationship as boyfriend/girlfriend and progress from there. People talk about a friend zone and I will tell you now, unless you live in the world, it's not true. Yes, I base everything I talk about from my Christian point of view and lots of you don't believe in it and that's not what I am discussing here, I am merely saying that, Christian or not, there is no friend zone, so don't be conned by the masses. Just like having sex with many women will make you content. It won't. A real relationship built from the ground up is where it's at. (Unless of course you have a spiritual side, then that comes first)

Since I do "live in the world", then it must be true.

And 128 THOUSAND people are looking for advice on how to get out apparently:

Basically, if you aren't a Christian, you will never see it the same way so I am not going to try and explain it any further as it gets into religious debates and flame wars and what have you. Just stating that I agree with Juliegel on this one.

I am a Christian and still see it the way that I do. If you're still looking at it from a standpoint that it's all about degrading women, then there is no way to change that opinion. Besides, if you're still only looking at the top layer of the PUA work, the getting women part, you're still missing what the community has to offer. It's alright, though. I have no need or desire to change anyone's opinion.

I do not wish to waste money on seeing any kind of depth it may or may not have. It's like expecting someone to pay $300 to review "Little Man". Sure it may be as good as it looks but it may not be and it may be a waste of money but you'll never know because you're too smart to risk the money.

If you have an excerpt of more of the deeper stuff, I'd like to see it.