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 Post subject: The center deal.
PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 4:45 pm 
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Penguin

Joined: 30 Nov 2010
Posts: 12
Hi all,
I have purchased the center deal 1-on-1 by Jason England over at theory11. I had been looking for this sleight for a while having read Karl Johnson's 'The Magician and the Cardsharp'. I am encoutering a problem however. Now, I know that I won't be able to learn the center deal overnight. I know it WILL take me years. However, I would like some advice to set me on the right track.
My problem is, when I try to slide the card out with my ***** finger (those of you who know the workings of the deal will understand), I can not push it up. Nor can I slide only one card out. The whole pack seems to move all at once. Now, I have tried clamping really hard with my thumb, but it always seems that the top of the deck will slip sideways. How do I overcome this? I have purchased hand grippers and did some research in order to find some hand strenght exercises, but even though my fingers can do the tough job, I can't get the card out. Please help me, as I am very eager to practice the deal properly.


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 Post subject: Re: The center deal.
PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 5:36 pm 
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born to perform.

Joined: 28 May 2007
Posts: 2753
Well....I havn't been working on the center yet. Nothing more than playing around with it but I have the entire "Foundations" set and I would recommend learning the Greek deal first. His center and Greek are very similar. About 3 or 4 years back I was working on the original Kennedy Center deal for a while. If you want to learn that one the book you have has an excellent description of it. Think of it as the "Muscle pass" of card magic. You need to work it and work it until it just happens. You need to build that callous on the pinkie and build the strength...basically, like a muscle pass, you need to build a callous and strength in a part of your hand where it is just not natural to have both.


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 Post subject: Re: The center deal.
PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 1:15 pm 
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Penguin

Joined: 30 Nov 2010
Posts: 12
Thanks a lot eostresh.
Actually, I think I know what you mean. I have been practicing a lot yesterday and I found that my problem was really that I was doing the hard job with my pinky, then pulling the card out while stopping doing the hard work. But I figured after messing around with it that I really need to keep the deck b****ed as I pull the card out. Thanks for your advice!


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 Post subject: Re: The center deal.
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 9:04 pm 
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born to perform.

Joined: 31 Jan 2004
Posts: 878
Location: Toronto
There isn't a whole lot I can say that you can't figure out with a few hours of messing around with the pressures involved, but here's what I've found helpful.

You don't have to slide the card out with your pinky, the original Kennedy deal (references listed below) involved using the middle finger from a very (imo) awkward grip. Jason's technique as I recall is a hybrid of the Kennedy center and a Jim Cooper idea.

Assuming you're right handed and the pack is in your left hand. Your thumb is going to apply downwards pressure to the top LEFT corner of the deck. This anchors the left side of the deck to your thumb crotch, you'll find that a gentle squeezing action of the bottom half will enable your left fingers, using upwards pressure on the RIGHT side of the deck, to slide out the bottom card of the top half. As soon as you get 'feel' that you've gained control of the center card, release pressure from your thumb and this will allow you to slide out a single card relatively easily.

This is what works for me. I think it's simply an issue of distinct opposing pressures from the downwards left and upwards right pressures on the deck. There's also a temporal element involved, so what it really boils down to is just lots and lots and lots of practice until you figure out what works for YOU.

I asked Jason the same question a few years ago and he mentioned that the problem of the sliding top half is something he was never completely able to get rid of. In my opinion, this isn't a problem in the original Kennedy deal. However, the original Kennedy deal is also significantly harder to do, although I would recommend that you learn it and understand it. It'll make Jason's technique make more sense and accelerate the learning process. I've listed the three places that it's been published below in chronological order. Revelation (2008) has the most comprehensive description. Also, if you haven't spent a significant amount of time on the bottom deal, I would recommend that you learn the bottom deal first.

Allan Kennedy Center Deal
1. Ross Bertram's "Methods and Magic of Ross Bertram"
2. David Ben article in Genii December 2001
3. Dai Vernon's Revelation (2008)

Hope this helps

Cheers
Ted


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 Post subject: Re: The center deal.
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 9:14 pm 
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born to perform.

Joined: 28 May 2007
Posts: 2753
Glad to see you stop by Ted...I have been getting really into Gambling Demos the last few months and I have been missing your advice! Cheers!


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 Post subject: Re: The center deal.
PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 12:18 am 
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Penguin

Joined: 30 Nov 2010
Posts: 12
porcupine wrote:
There isn't a whole lot I can say that you can't figure out with a few hours of messing around with the pressures involved, but here's what I've found helpful.

You don't have to slide the card out with your pinky, the original Kennedy deal (references listed below) involved using the middle finger from a very (imo) awkward grip. Jason's technique as I recall is a hybrid of the Kennedy center and a Jim Cooper idea.

Assuming you're right handed and the pack is in your left hand. Your thumb is going to apply downwards pressure to the top LEFT corner of the deck. This anchors the left side of the deck to your thumb crotch, you'll find that a gentle squeezing action of the bottom half will enable your left fingers, using upwards pressure on the RIGHT side of the deck, to slide out the bottom card of the top half. As soon as you get 'feel' that you've gained control of the center card, release pressure from your thumb and this will allow you to slide out a single card relatively easily.

This is what works for me. I think it's simply an issue of distinct opposing pressures from the downwards left and upwards right pressures on the deck. There's also a temporal element involved, so what it really boils down to is just lots and lots and lots of practice until you figure out what works for YOU.

I asked Jason the same question a few years ago and he mentioned that the problem of the sliding top half is something he was never completely able to get rid of. In my opinion, this isn't a problem in the original Kennedy deal. However, the original Kennedy deal is also significantly harder to do, although I would recommend that you learn it and understand it. It'll make Jason's technique make more sense and accelerate the learning process. I've listed the three places that it's been published below in chronological order. Revelation (2008) has the most comprehensive description. Also, if you haven't spent a significant amount of time on the bottom deal, I would recommend that you learn the bottom deal first.

Allan Kennedy Center Deal
1. Ross Bertram's "Methods and Magic of Ross Bertram"
2. David Ben article in Genii December 2001
3. Dai Vernon's Revelation (2008)

Hope this helps

Cheers
Ted

Thanks a lot Ted!
The advice is really helpful, and I will for sure look into the sources provided.


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