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 Post subject: Should I?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 10:06 pm 
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Location: Portage, Manitoba
Okay, so there is this guy I know that is one year younger than me. He is really getting into the whole magic thing, and tells me he has been looking up trick tutorials on YouTube. All this has come about since he has met me, and it makes me feel good that someone is totally interested in learning this stuff. I am wondering on what your thoughts are on whether or not I should teach him, and if I should, how? I am just not sure if he is going to be serious about it or not. Is there any way I can tell how serious he is about it, and where should I start? Any suggestions on how to handle this will be appreciated!


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 Post subject: Re: Should I?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 10:47 pm 
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born to perform.

Joined: 13 Aug 2005
Posts: 759
Location: Nor Cal.
Here is the thing, you are still new to magic. I would hold off on teaching until you know more. You don't ant to risk teaching him wrong. Until you have more experience under you belt, stay away from private tutoring. Recommend a book or dvd to him.


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 Post subject: Re: Should I?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 12:05 am 
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born to perform.

Joined: 22 Mar 2003
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Location: of my spongeballs eludes me.
Great opportunity sumobear! Start with basic, easy effects and see how quickly he picks up on things. You will also see how serious he is by how much he practices, wants to learn and discuss more, etc. You will also learn more as you teach.


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 Post subject: Re: Should I?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 2:46 am 
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Right. Thanks for the thoughts. I think that I am going to take the opportunity to teach him, but I will be starting out slow with some of the classic sleight of hand. I think I will concentrate on card maneuvers, and build off of that. I will probably also go into coins and sponge balls a bit. The guy seems to like coins, so I will probably be lending him a DVD and Bobo's Coin Magic. I am going to take it slow, and teach him this kind of stuff first before getting into gimmicks and other tricks. After all, you shouldn't need to rely on gimmicks to perform well for people. I think (and hope) that this project will be a great experience, and also a sort of review time where I can go over all my sleights (yet again). Thanks again, and keep commenting!


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 Post subject: Re: Should I?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 8:29 am 
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born to perform.

Joined: 13 Mar 2008
Posts: 772
Location: Merion Station, PA
Choose 1 trick that he should learn and teach it to him or lend him the materials that will and then tell him to only practice that trick and when he can do that trick with his eyes closed (figuratively speaking) teach him something new.
-Ari


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 Post subject: Re: Should I?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 8:35 am 
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Joined: 14 Feb 2006
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Learn together. It would be great to have a buddy to do magic with. But I am the only one in my town. DO like a poker night but have a magic nite no jokeing guys. You know what I mean.


Last edited by aces_up_41 on Thu Mar 17, 2011 8:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Should I?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 8:35 am 
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If he's learning from youtube, I doubt he is very serious about it. If he were, he would have ordered a book, a gimmick, SOMETHING. I think it'd be better for you to point him in the right direction if he really seemed serious (Which you can determine by having an in depth conversation about the major rules and philosophies of magic) like this website or a local magic shop.

If you are really going to teach and you are new to magic yourself, I'd honestly start out by showing him some self working effects. The thing is you really want to be sure you are teaching a soon-to-be-prestidigitator how to begin his journey rather than teaching a friend a handful of "tricks".

-ArchAngel_G


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 Post subject: Re: Should I?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 4:49 pm 
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Joined: 13 Nov 2003
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Location: Pittsburgh, PA
I thought the 21 card trick was good magic presented as is until someone taught me different. You'll never know 'til you try!

-JT


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 Post subject: Re: Should I?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 3:00 am 
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( Personal Story skip this to get to advice) I also have a friend very interested in magic, although I feel he is more interested with the technical aspect rather than performance which I plan to help him change, he is very creative, but to a bad end, I will teach him a trick and he will try to improve on it, though he usually turns the trick from a simple wonder to some complex hunk of magic, also ( though I believe this stems from a lack of some core basic sleights) he always tries to use some overly complicated methods to do tricks he want to perform, although I cant remember the specifics he basically wanted to force a card though he didn't know how and tried to use some crazy unworkable method, I then taught him the riffle and cross cut force and he is doing much better

My advice is to get him to understand the basics having basic sleights down before even starting your first effect is key, this way when you do learn some material you can change out sleights you dont know for some that you do, you can improvise and you can even make your own tricks

If the person does not yet know what kind of magic he likes I recommend he starts with three of the best books for a beginner

Which are
- The Royal Road to Card Magic ( especially the first parts as they give one of the best building block resources out there)
In RRTCM some important sleights are - The DL, the glide, Overhand Shuffle maintaining the top card, holding breaks and ways to control a card from the middle of the pack, i would also keep him away from the passes section, for now
- Bobo's coin Magic
I will not mention important sleights here ax I am not very experienced in coins
-13 Steps to Mentalism, which I will not comment on because I have not finished reading it
and
- Mark Wilson's Complete Course in Magic
this book has so many tricks i wouldn't even know where to tell you to start, one of my favorite sections is the rope magic section this book will have him reading for hours digging through and finding little magical gems though because of the size, this is like mining for precious metals.

For someone more visually oriented I have a few other selections or suggestions
Which are-
-Born To Perform Card Magic- Penguins own little gem for a beginner magician it takes the most important sleights from RRTCM (though i think it should teach the false overhand shuffle) and teaches them in a way that is easy to under stand, after the basics it teaches 4 tricks most of which I use on a regular basis, after that it teaches some more advanced moves and some important flourishes ( best of which are Springing the Cards, And the one and 2 handed fan)
- In The Beginning There Were Coins- this DVD is what BTP:CM is to RRTCM, a compressed but very well taught hodgepodge of important basics and a few mind blowing routines all using things you pull from your pocket every day
-Any Time Anywhere - a great buy from sankey although not as all inclusive as mark wilsons CCIM this DVD has a few carefully selected impromptu masterpieces
and last but not least
-22 Blows to the Head- Another sankey dvd that I believe has very many good routines on it, the only negative being that it lacks some basics of mental ism which you can learn in 13 steps

sorry for the long post but I believe that if a magician just starting out got all of these products they would be easily able to find a niche for themselves and learn all the basics for all kinds of magic


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 Post subject: Re: Should I?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 8:14 am 
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Thanks Lairy, awesome advice.

Just to let everyone know how this project is coming along... here it goes.

So I started him off by bringing him to my house and showing him the effects I use regularly. He thought that all the methods were just genius, and definitely wanted to learn more. I am going to be slowing the pace a little as I think I may be overwhelming him with too much stuff for right now. I got some PDF books which I gave him on a flash drive. I sent...

Royal Road to Card magic
Card College 1 2 3 4 and 5
Bobo's Modern Coin Magic
Crazy Man's Handcuffs - Michael Ammar
Now You See It Now You Dont - Bill Tarr
and a few others...

I also lent him my first magic book. Magic for the Complete Klutz. lol.

I have had him over to my house a few times, and have taught him a few sleights. I taught him a really cool any card at any number trick that he has already performed for a friend. It still needs some work, but looked half decent.

I am having him over again today, and will be going over some more stuff with him. He is really interested in cards, so that is how we have been starting out.

I have personally taught him these card sleights...

DL
Overhand False shuffle
Riffle Shuffle
Hindu (or Hindoo) shuffle
Half Pass
a few others too... i forget

He seems like he is interested in it for sure, but whether or not he has an enthusiasm to learn and practice it... I dont know. He seems to as he is already learning some of the stuff, but when he comes over he wants to do other stuff lots of the time too. Definitely not a problem, but I do want to get some practice/teaching time in there too lol.

Anyway, I will keep you all posted, and keep the comments and suggestions coming.


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 Post subject: Re: Should I?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 4:53 pm 
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sumobear08 wrote:
I got some PDF books which I gave him on a flash drive. I sent...

Royal Road to Card magic
Card College 1 2 3 4 and 5
Bobo's Modern Coin Magic
Crazy Man's Handcuffs - Michael Ammar
Now You See It Now You Dont - Bill Tarr
and a few others...


Shame

-ArchAngel_G


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 Post subject: Re: Should I?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 2:41 am 
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Location: Sydney, Australia
ArchAngel_G wrote:
sumobear08 wrote:
I got some PDF books which I gave him on a flash drive. I sent...

Royal Road to Card magic
Card College 1 2 3 4 and 5
Bobo's Modern Coin Magic
Crazy Man's Handcuffs - Michael Ammar
Now You See It Now You Dont - Bill Tarr
and a few others...


Shame

-ArchAngel_G


That's what I thought.


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 Post subject: Re: Should I?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 8:51 am 
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Joined: 09 Jun 2009
Posts: 402
Incognito wrote:
ArchAngel_G wrote:
sumobear08 wrote:
I got some PDF books which I gave him on a flash drive. I sent...

Royal Road to Card magic
Card College 1 2 3 4 and 5
Bobo's Modern Coin Magic
Crazy Man's Handcuffs - Michael Ammar
Now You See It Now You Dont - Bill Tarr
and a few others...


Shame

-ArchAngel_G


That's what I thought.

sumobear08, I'd like to point out something. Magicians have, as far as I know, two main ways of making money with magic. One is performance. The other is in providing teaching material for learners. I'm not sure what makes more, but surely you must realize that by GIVING your "student" all that leaning material that you are taking money out of the pockets of struggling magicians.

Also, as far as your student is concerned, let me tell you another story about my experience taking lessons from a professional. HE NEVER GAVE ME ANYTHING FOR FREE! He would only help me with the material I already had, gave me direction of what I wanted to learn, and if I purchased the learning material would go over it with me.

-ArchAngel_G


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 Post subject: Re: Should I?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 3:25 pm 
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Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Posts: 3462
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
A. That's a problem for information overload.
B. How do you get all of those on a flash drive?
C. If he isn't willing to spend the $20 on Mark Wilson or Joshua Jay's Complete Course, then he probably isn't too interested.

-JT


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 Post subject: Re: Should I?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 1:47 pm 
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Joined: 30 Nov 2010
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Location: Portage, Manitoba
To answer your guys questions and comments...

I personally dont see a problem with giving my "student" some materials that I have available! They are all great resources that teach A LOT to the beginner. It may be an overload of material, but nobody said he has to read it all in a week either. It is like a textbook. Lots of information that can be learned and studied over a long period of time!
Just because you never got stuff for free when you started magic does not mean that I cannot give my FRIEND a head start! I have the resources and he wants to learn, so my question is... WHY NOT?
Why should he spend hundreds of dollars on material that I "his friend" already own?

Thanks for your concern, but maybe explain to me a bit better why this is such a bad idea.


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