View Cart | View Account | Help
Order by phone: 800-880-2592
Check out our favorite NEW ARRIVALS
Need it fast? Order before 4pm Eastern and your order ships SAME DAY.

All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Three phase prediction
PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 10:06 am 
User avatar
Offline
born to perform.

Joined: 06 Sep 2005
Posts: 705
Location: Birmingham UK
So I'm reading Mind Mythe and Magic and I'm currently on the section regarding the three phase prediction which uses the one ahead system. (It could be any number of phases really but 3 is a magic number.) So I'm starting to build my own routine now and I've got some musings to share on the subject.

On cards.
The great advantage to a prediction effect with cards is there are literally dozens of ways to know the identity of a chosen card without it being said out loud, this can eliminate the idea of one ahead in the mind of the participant (it's not common knowledge but it is known). There are some drawbacks that spring to mind.

For one what exactly is the process by which one predicts a card someone will take? I mean you could argue that you can influence a choice of a number or word but if a deck is shuffled and you don't know the order of the cards how could you possibly predict a card someone will cut to? Yes it's magic we're meant to deal in the impossible but perhaps this is one of those things that is too impossible, so impossible it has to be a trick, if you get my meaning.

To combat this perhaps on the first phase (whether the deck really is shuffled or just false shuffled) you could ask your first participant to just pick up any number of cards. Comment on how many he's picked up and scan casually through the faces as though you're looking for something then write your "prediction." You don't need to do this for the others as you were just warming up on spec 1 and had some trepidations about how well you'd do and now the participants already have some idea of some kind of process.

The force at the end is also an issue, especially if you haven't had to handle the cards for the 1st two phases. Part three is your climax, this should be the most impossible of your achievements and picking up the deck and riffle forcing won't sell that. Even a classic force wouldn't cut it imo.
So one thought I had was have the deck stacked in a 14/15 stack. Now instead of forcing a card you're forcing the total of two cards. This can be done with a fair cut (providing the order is maintained through phases 1 and 2). Also this effect is different from the others so your big climax is unique in comparison to the previous and the fact that two cards were taken (and with a little patter you could probably convince you audience the participant could have taken the cards from anywhere.) So this can be really oversold for a big finish.

Ok I have more regarding predictions not of a card nature but I'm outta time to type right now so I'll update this in a bit.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Three phase prediction
PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 4:17 pm 
User avatar
Offline
born to perform.

Joined: 14 Mar 2005
Posts: 1145
Location: Australia + New Zealand
A great 3 phase prediction or triple prediction mentalism type effect I do all the time is Paul green's jeopardy routine. Its absolutely fantastic.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Three phase prediction
PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 4:31 pm 
Offline
Penguin

Joined: 29 Mar 2011
Posts: 209
Location: Leeds, U.K
A behind you back rifle force (unorthodox back edge rifle) where they shuffle and you peek ots all done behind the back so there is no fairer method they shuffled the deck.. i'm not as massive fan of the one ahead no matter how clever it is portrayed as an astute lay will see right through it :|


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Three phase prediction
PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 4:42 pm 
User avatar
Offline
born to perform.

Joined: 04 Apr 2006
Posts: 1044
Location: Brooklyn-"Fuhgedaboudit!"
In this video, I used a one ahead principle and a One-Way deck (the predictions were a certain number, shape and card), at 2:43.



Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Three phase prediction
PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 4:56 pm 
Offline
Penguin

Joined: 29 Mar 2011
Posts: 209
Location: Leeds, U.K
duds wrote:
In this video, I used a one ahead principle and a One-Way deck (the predictions were a certain number, shape and card), at 2:43.


I think the bit where it gets let down a little is one person THINKS of a shape, another person THINKS of a color, the third person DOESN'T THINK but selects a card for me (as a personal opinion) this is lacking in logic....why wouldn't the third person think of a playing card??

also why use a one ahead to force a color or a shape there are guaranteed hit psychological forces for such things.

Nice video though :) (not picking you down here, just trying to point out in mentalism everything must be logical, If I was a a lay I would question such a blatant compromise)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Three phase prediction
PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 5:21 pm 
User avatar
Offline
born to perform.

Joined: 06 Sep 2005
Posts: 705
Location: Birmingham UK
soowee wrote:
A great 3 phase prediction or triple prediction mentalism type effect I do all the time is Paul green's jeopardy routine. Its absolutely fantastic.


Jeopardy is a self working masterpiece but not quite the same thing as I'm talking about here. No one ahead or anything. I've had a lot of fun with this affect in the past.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Three phase prediction
PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 6:00 pm 
User avatar
Offline
born to perform.

Joined: 04 Apr 2006
Posts: 1044
Location: Brooklyn-"Fuhgedaboudit!"
Peter_turner1 wrote:
duds wrote:
In this video, I used a one ahead principle and a One-Way deck (the predictions were a certain number, shape and card), at 2:43.


I think the bit where it gets let down a little is one person THINKS of a shape, another person THINKS of a color, the third person DOESN'T THINK but selects a card for me (as a personal opinion) this is lacking in logic....why wouldn't the third person think of a playing card??

also why use a one ahead to force a color or a shape there are guaranteed hit psychological forces for such things.

Nice video though :) (not picking you down here, just trying to point out in mentalism everything must be logical, If I was a a lay I would question such a blatant compromise)

lol. The routine that went over the best was actually this one.

The reason I didn't psychologically force the items was because of one simple reason......I don't know how to! I'm not that deep into mentalism. I liked this routine though. If I had forced all the items I wouldn't have had to use a chunk of money and a day of work to make that special bulletin board! :D


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Three phase prediction
PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 6:35 pm 
User avatar
Offline
born to perform.

Joined: 28 May 2007
Posts: 2753
duds wrote:

The reason I didn't psychologically force the items was because of one simple reason......I don't know how to! I'm not that deep into mentalism. I liked this routine though. If I had forced all the items I wouldn't have had to use a chunk of money and a day of work to make that special bulletin board! :D

Using the same gimmick and practically the same routine was what got me started in mentalism. Here is a thought that might be more practical for you, at least it has been for me. Consider a series of "random" predictions. That way, because all the predictions are random, the card force doesn't stick out. I'm not presenting like I am reading minds, I am predicting the future that "seems" random to everyone else. That way I can use one card force and two other truly random predictions.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Three phase prediction
PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 7:17 pm 
User avatar
Offline
born to perform.

Joined: 04 Apr 2006
Posts: 1044
Location: Brooklyn-"Fuhgedaboudit!"
Okay, makes sense.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Three phase prediction
PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 9:48 pm 
User avatar
Offline
born to perform.

Joined: 19 Dec 2007
Posts: 649
soowee wrote:
A great 3 phase prediction or triple prediction mentalism type effect I do all the time is Paul green's jeopardy routine. Its absolutely fantastic.



yip jeopardys great though i dont use it anymore


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Three phase prediction
PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 4:21 am 
Offline
Penguin

Joined: 29 Mar 2011
Posts: 209
Location: Leeds, U.K
(there is an interesting one ahead chair routine floating around) nice to make six people stand or sit in a random order but a little hard to pull off :)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Three phase prediction
PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 6:09 am 
User avatar
Offline
born to perform.

Joined: 06 Sep 2005
Posts: 705
Location: Birmingham UK
I think one ahead is going to work better with a more intimate group. Maybe three people all of whom are actually taking part. Subjectivity is key to deception while an objective outsider may easily see through the ruse.
I'm putting together a routine for small groups using only business cards, the cards will be labeled ABC (or name date of birth zip code etc) to aid the deception. Most importantly though I want to create a process for each selection that the participant really invests themselves in so as to make it a little harder for them to retrace the steps (maybe even give them the predictions to hold after, provided I can think of an excuse to taking them back, perhaps they all need to help out for phase 3 and I take the cards back to free up their hands). I'm still not settled on a force yet but I've got a book with 202 of them in so I'm sure I'll find one.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Three phase prediction
PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 6:11 am 
Offline
Penguin

Joined: 29 Mar 2011
Posts: 209
Location: Leeds, U.K
arkham666 wrote:
I think one ahead is going to work better with a more intimate group. Maybe three people all of whom are actually taking part. Subjectivity is key to deception while an objective outsider may easily see through the ruse.
I'm putting together a routine for small groups using only business cards, the cards will be labeled ABC (or name date of birth zip code etc) to aid the deception. Most importantly though I want to create a process for each selection that the participant really invests themselves in so as to make it a little harder for them to retrace the steps (maybe even give them the predictions to hold after, provided I can think of an excuse to taking them back, perhaps they all need to help out for phase 3 and I take the cards back to free up their hands). I'm still not settled on a force yet but I've got a book with 202 of them in so I'm sure I'll find one.


Excellent book it is too ;)


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2009 Penguin Magic, Inc.