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 Post subject: Re: How "Real" are you?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 3:14 pm 
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Penguin

Joined: 14 Aug 2011
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I portray a psychologist/body language persona, always claim I make the magic happen, why give the props the skills when you can have it ;)


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 Post subject: Re: How "Real" are you?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 5:57 pm 
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aces_up_41 wrote:
As long as you entertain people it dont matter. I listen to most of Paddy posts. He has been in magic a long time. But I think he is wroung about David Blaine and Angel. There doing what they set out to do. Entertain people. Makes them happy and alot of people. Who cares...........


I have been in magic 31 years to be exact, 22 years as a professional, and I can attest that Paddy is not wrong about Angel nor am I. Angel is a fraud, that is why magicians at the Magic Castle moved his picture in the bathroom above a toilet. As I said in the past he creates unrealistc expectations for real-world performers. Spectators wonder why you can't also walk up a wall, vanish in a puddle, or vanish from under a garbage can and appear on a roof yelling like a goofball live. But they don't realize that Siss can't do it either live. That is why his live show "cirque du soleil" sucked so bad and bombed, and people walked out. They were wondering why Angel was not doing what he does on TV. Well because he can't. Anyone can be a magician on TV.

Angel does camera tricks about 95% of the time. Blaine does legitimate effects 95% of the time. Those are the facts. Angel can barely palm a poker chip. Nonetheless, what magicians think, or what we know as facts, does not matter much. If laymen are entertained that is good, even if what Angel is doing is crap and fake, and cannot be done in the real world. That is why magicans do not respect him, anyone can be a magician or at least look like one with a camera, stooges, and editing crew. To make matters worse he acts like he is all that and then claims that "what you see is what you get."

I guess that is true and all depends on how intelligent the person is who is doing the seeing...


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 Post subject: Re: How "Real" are you?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 8:17 pm 
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born to perform.

Joined: 14 Feb 2006
Posts: 891
Criss Angel still has a show in the Luxor dont he. So he must bring in people to see him. He might do a lot of camera tricks on his T.V. shows that is why its off the air. Nobody watch it. But it looks like his show at the Luxor is still going. Dont be a hater because he knows how to market him self and makes a dam good living at it. Just saying that if you can find away to market yourself and love what you do and make a good living at it. Go for it as long as it don't hurt anybody.


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 Post subject: Re: How "Real" are you?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 12:19 pm 
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aces_up_41 wrote:
Criss Angel still has a show in the Luxor dont he. So he must bring in people to see him. He might do a lot of camera tricks on his T.V. shows that is why its off the air. Nobody watch it. But it looks like his show at the Luxor is still going. Dont be a hater because he knows how to market him self and makes a dam good living at it. Just saying that if you can find away to market yourself and love what you do and make a good living at it. Go for it as long as it don't hurt anybody.

People don't hate Chris because he's a good marketer. People hate Chris because he's a hack magician. When you got a good chunk of the "well-rounded" professional magical comunity disgusted at him, it's a sign that perhaps they see a real issue.

Regardless how you feel about Chris, why not take this rant to one of the many Chris threads there are? This is suppose to be about how "real" you make your magic. And for me, nothing is as real as something that is done right in front of you rather than through a digital screen.

-ArchAngel_G


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 Post subject: Re: How "Real" are you?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 3:55 am 
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Hey guys! first post.

I, as a mentalist, prefer to take the Osterlind approach of not claiming anything. I can say things like "I use a varied mixture of techniques", or "I pocess no supernatural abillities, I use natural abillities that everyone has"

This way, the believers will not feel their belief is being questioned (which I would not bother with anyway), and the non-believers will not get offended. And in the end everyone will have an entertaining experience and go home the same way they were before, just filled with wonder.

I do agree with the previous poster who said that it is not a good idea to give a "bogus explanation as misdirection" if your goal is to mystify. As Darwin Ortiz said in Designing miracles, there is a difference between deception and illusion. However, I do think it can greatly add to the effect to now and then subtly suggest that you're using a bogus method (by acting like you do), without saying you do. The audience will, again, make up their own mind and go away filled with wonder.


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 Post subject: Re: How "Real" are you?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 1:04 pm 
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born to perform.

Joined: 05 Jan 2007
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Location: Visit my blog at magic-yeti.blogspot.com
Mendler wrote:
Hey guys! first post.

"I pocess no supernatural abillities, I use natural abillities that everyone has"



I like that line! I'm going to steal it. Thanks and welcome to Penguin.


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 Post subject: Re: How "Real" are you?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 3:25 pm 
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Everyone has them, but few can channel them...Then you won't have to teach everyone in the room. :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: How "Real" are you?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:48 pm 
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That is why I like Blaine, he appears to genuinely care about what he is doing, and he smiles and laughs with the crowd, and connects with them like no other performer on TV. Others act like they are magic Gods and that the audience is stupid. Blaine is down to earth and on their side, and shares the experience. He doesn't deny having powers nor does he say that he does. He even said it was "entertainment". But it's best to let them decide. His character is likeable, mystical, and polite. That is genius at work, and those who lack magic and life experience do not recognize it.


Last edited by sirbrad on Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: How "Real" are you?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 8:02 pm 
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sirbrad wrote:
That is why I like Blaine, he appears to genuinely care about what he is doing, and he smiles and laughs with the crowd, and connects with them like no other performer on TV. Others act like they are magic Gods and that the audience is stupid. Blaine is down to earth and on their side, and shares the experience. He doesn't deny having powers nor does he say that he does. He even said it was "entertainment". But it best to let them decide. His character is likeable, mystical, and polite. That is genius at work, and those who lack magic and life experience do not recognize it.


I agree. I remember that there used to be a lot of hate on Blaine, never understood why. Jealousy and fear I guess.


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 Post subject: Re: How "Real" are you?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 2:17 am 
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I've been performing professionally (but sporadically) for several years. My original mentor taught me with young audiences always to explain that I don't have any real magic powers up front, so they are not confused. With adult audiences, lately I've started out with something like: "I'm a preacher, so I'm a professional truth-teller. But I'm also a magician, so I'm a professional liar. As you can imagine, it gets pretty confusing in my head at times!"


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 Post subject: Re: How "Real" are you?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 2:50 pm 
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born to perform.

Joined: 28 Jan 2009
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Location: Kettle Falls, WA
sirbrad wrote:
As Jamy Ian Swiss would say, "I am an honest liar." There is nothing wrong allowing people to believe in magic, especially kids. The only problem is when someone claims to have real power and they tries to take advantage of people for financial gain. (Uri Geller etc.) ."



I like it, an honest liar!!! Maybe an honest pathelogical liar, for entertainment purposes of course!!

Part of the reason I love magic SO much is that it allows parts of my personality to come out that don't usually come out in other ways. I wouldn't say I'm not being myself, I think that would be a mistake, but I AM exaggerating my normal personality on purpose! For me it's all the fun. After our last show I heard one of the spectators talking to my wife in the theater lobby. "Is he ALWAYS that crazy and that much fun?" she asked my wife. "Thankfully no" my wife said. "He just loves to perform." Thank God for MAGIC!! Nothing on earth makes me happier than making people laugh and smile and experience the whole range of emotions and wonder that they can only get at a great magic show. It makes my life feel complete.

Ted


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 Post subject: Re: How "Real" are you?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 3:04 am 
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Joined: 23 Feb 2012
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In my experience, magicians tend to underestimate the intellect of their audiences. On another note, it seems more often to be true for long-term hobbyists and new-comers.

The advances that have been made in understanding the world (even in the past 50 years) have been phenomenal. Until the first computers emerged, plate tectonics was a concept completely unknown to man. It would be naïve to believe that any person with access to the internet and a general sense of investigative procedures would take magic for a 100% real phenomenon. I understand that there are magicians who would argue that this depends on how it is presented. I would concede that there are presentational techniques that certainly can increase the seriousness with which the audience interprets the illusion. Most of these techniques involve the performer treating the magic seriously; in other words, the magician literally takes on the role of an actual magician, and does not stray from it. Despite that concession, however, I would not say that anything short of scientifically supported proof would entirely convince the average citizen that magic, by definition, is free of any sort of deception. People get caught in small moments during which they think the impossible has just occurred. That moment does fade, and it does not change their internal belief system. If a person's beliefs can be changed so quickly toward accepting magic as real, then it's reasonable to surmise that their opinion of magic as reality could as easily be swayed toward non-belief in the very next minute. So the acceptance of such people is of little value, and thereby nullifies the benefit of being a "real" magician. If all magicians permanently turned their audiences into true "believers," so to speak, then they would have millions of citizens going wild and trying to help the world usher in the Messiah. With a careful wit, one will come to the conclusion that people are often more accommodating than they are convinced. If a magician is amicable, the audience will desire his success. If an atmosphere of belief will act as a means toward that end, many are glad to provide it. The fact, however, is that these people, if they truly do believe the things that are occurring, probably would not simply clap; they would worship the commander of the impossible. That simply does not happen to magicians in the developed world.

In summation, I believe that it would be foolish to attempt to convince an average citizen in the industrialized world to accept magic as "real" in the sense that the effects resulting from the magician's actions are a legitimate reflection of reality.
That being said, there are some people who still hunt for ghosts, believe in witches, channel dead spirits, see the future, believe that the world as we know it will cease to exist after December 21, and speak to beings that never reply. These people simply cannot be convinced that such things are at odds with reality, and perhaps they believe that a magician can produce real magic that is free of natural workings. The truth of the matter is that these sorts of people will believe almost anything, and so their belief is less valuable, since magic is simply another fact of life for them. If magic were possible, it would cease to be special. In that regard, I think that any attempt to be accepted as legitimate should be handled with care. A lack of acceptance of magic is harmful, but too much acceptance is equally so.


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