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 Post subject: Is it ethical to sell (or buy) used magic DVDs?
PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 11:07 am 
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Penguin

Joined: 16 Mar 2005
Posts: 208
This is one a struggle with. It's one thing to purchase a used piece of maigc apparatus, as the original owner will no longer be using it. But intellectual property is different, as you can learn an effect off a DVD, and still perform it after the DVD is re-sold.

Personally, I will only re-sell magic that I no longer perform, in any form. In my mind, learning an effect and continuing to perform it after you've re-sold the DVD is not a whole lot different that just burning a copy and selling the pirated version (or downloading a music CD to an Ipod and then re-selling the original.)

I'm curious to hear what others think.


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 Post subject: Re: Is it ethical to sell (or buy) used magic DVDs?
PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 11:58 am 
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born to perform.

Joined: 14 Oct 2007
Posts: 949
This could be a very tricky question which I don't really want to get involved with (read: too lazy to write a real response).

Just wondering, did you specifically mention DVD's to the exclusion of books, or would you consider it unethical to sell books too?


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 Post subject: Re: Is it ethical to sell (or buy) used magic DVDs?
PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 1:28 pm 
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Penguin

Joined: 16 Mar 2005
Posts: 208
Interesting question about books. I would say no, I don't have a problem re-selling books because the amount of practical, performance-ready insight I gain from any one book is minimal. If a single book was that integral to my performance, I wouldn't be selling it.

As far as DVDs, I was thinking more of single effects that come on a DVD--Anthony Lindan's "Redonkulous," Kevin Reylek's "Cannibal," or Jay Sankey's "Deliverance." You get the picture. None of these include any proprietary gaff or gimmick. The sole value is in the information contained on the DVD.

It would be one thing to watch the DVD, decide the effect isn't for you, and re-sell it. But selling the DVD while you're still using the "performance rights," is what I have a problem with. (Yes, I know the term "performance rights" has little legal meaning, but it was the best I could come up with. Don't dwell on that part of my post. I'm not talking about what's legal, I'm talking about what's right.)


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 Post subject: Re: Is it ethical to sell (or buy) used magic DVDs?
PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 3:46 am 
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Joined: 24 Jan 2003
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Location: Milford OH
I see nothing wrong with selling your old DVDs to another magician, or buying them. The ethics comes in selling to a layman so he learns the secrets involved. As for buying them, I don't care if I buy from another magician or a layman I know I protect the secrets when I learn them.

The exception is my wife, she knows the secret to every effect I do and if I am sick, she can do my whole show, word for word.


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 Post subject: Re: Is it ethical to sell (or buy) used magic DVDs?
PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 9:57 am 
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Penguin

Joined: 25 Mar 2013
Posts: 179
E-bay, Craig's List, used book and music stores, even Goodwill, they're necessary evils.


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 Post subject: Re: Is it ethical to sell (or buy) used magic DVDs?
PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 1:14 pm 
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Penguin

Joined: 16 Mar 2005
Posts: 208
I use the matrimonial exception to the magician's code, too, Paddy. Since my wife knows the secrets to all my tricks, it feels particularly good when I can fool her with something new. That's how I know an effect is something special. That doesn't happen a lot, though. I think the last effect I fooled her with Aaron Fisher's "Panic." And before that it was Bill Abbott's "Smart [edited]."

Panic is one of those that's more believable than you think it should be at first glance.


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 Post subject: Re: Is it ethical to sell (or buy) used magic DVDs?
PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 4:31 am 
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Location: Milford OH
After a number of years hearing those famous last words, "watch this!" wife know what to look for & are hard to fool.


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 Post subject: Re: Is it ethical to sell (or buy) used magic DVDs?
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 6:37 am 
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Penguin

Joined: 27 Jun 2011
Posts: 131
Location: Philippines
I have bought a lot of magic books and some DVD's at the local used book store. I buy music my CD's and regular movie DVD's too. It is all the same to me.

There is so much free online I don't think the used material is going to hurt at all - but online is whole new can of worms...


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 Post subject: Re: Is it ethical to sell (or buy) used magic DVDs?
PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2013 6:40 pm 
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born to perform.

Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 526
The same could be said about videogames .... Legally once you buy the item it is yours and you are allowed to do as you see fit. The difference with magic is that the community is smaller than videogames but legally , i'm pretty sure there's nothing that can be done about it.

Personally, i grew up learning magic sharing tricks with another magician friend of mine. This let me learn new material that i wouldn't have either way.

What makes me crindge is more looking for a video demo on youtube for a trick and having the explanation or worst, the dvd posted in full for everyone to see ....

EX: I own a old Daniel Garcia dvd (It's a card restoration effect ;) ) and I was telling co-workers about the effect .... They wanted to see it but having not practiced it i decided to pull out the iphone to show them what it looked like ... Right under the trailer, i saw the 30 minute video posted so i had to hide the name of the effect since i did not want the person to get the secret right away.

And i'm also practicing it to show him live anyways lol...


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 Post subject: Re: Is it ethical to sell (or buy) used magic DVDs?
PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2013 3:43 pm 
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Penguin

Joined: 04 Sep 2006
Posts: 188
*soapbox in place*
This is why we have sooooo much crap being released on DVD's in the first place. Real creators do not release the good stuff because of this very topic. It will be resold or uploaded to a torrent site within days or even hours of it's release. If you spent your hard earned money on it, learned the secret, and still don't use it, then put it in the archives, there was a reason you bought it in the first place. The creator of the effect gets zero dollars when someone like you sells his secrets. You don't have the right to sell something that isn't yours, the DVD is yours, but the secrets are not yours to sell.


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 Post subject: Re: Is it ethical to sell (or buy) used magic DVDs?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 1:51 pm 
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Penguin

Joined: 16 Mar 2005
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You don't have the right to sell something that isn't yours, the DVD is yours, but the secrets are not yours to sell.

Interesting post edrezin. I agree with you mostly. I'd say that the secrets are not yours to sell so long as you are using them. There are plenty effects I have purchased over the years and, after finding out all the details, I decided that the effects were not for me. In those cases, I have no qualms about re-selling them with the DVD. In those cases, I see it as no different than re-selling a piece of magic apparatus.

But I will not sell a DVD that contains material I like and use. In my mind, that would be the same as downloading a CD to your Ipod, and then reselling the original. While it may or may not be technically legal, the author is getting paid only once for material that two people are using. And that's not fair.


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 Post subject: Re: Is it ethical to sell (or buy) used magic DVDs?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 11:26 pm 
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born to perform.

Joined: 14 Oct 2007
Posts: 949
Just out of curiosity, does anyone have a problem borrowing a non-magic book from the library? One might argue that it's unethical, since the author is only getting paid once for his story and hundreds of people are reading it.


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 Post subject: Re: Is it ethical to sell (or buy) used magic DVDs?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 6:16 pm 
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Penguin

Joined: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 420
Location: Sydney Mines , Nova Scotia , Canada
if I buy a coke and share it with my gf does that hurt the coke company , to the original poster I say sell and buy whatever you wish its your life. I don't see anything wrong with selling material you have no use for and the inventor is aware of the risks in the marketing business. I think a lot of magicians can get uptight on this subject but to me its whatever as long as your not mass producing the product then your good


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 Post subject: Re: Is it ethical to sell (or buy) used magic DVDs?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 2:22 pm 
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Penguin

Joined: 19 Aug 2008
Posts: 6
It's highly unethical. However, I don't know anyone who hasn't done it. What's more unethical is if you buy a DVD, make copies, and sell them. I know a lot of jack-a-moes who have done that, too.

I mostly just buy books, and I keep 'em. I just can't seem to part with my 'treasures.'


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 Post subject: Re: Is it ethical to sell (or buy) used magic DVDs?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 2:42 pm 
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Penguin

Joined: 04 Sep 2006
Posts: 188
salmononius2 wrote:
Just out of curiosity, does anyone have a problem borrowing a non-magic book from the library? One might argue that it's unethical, since the author is only getting paid once for his story and hundreds of people are reading it.



Author's give permission for libraries to carry their book.

If you sell a DVD after learning the secrets on it you are ripping off the inventor.

People who see it differently are selfish and cheap.


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