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 Post subject: My top 10 LEAST Favorite Magicians!
PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:12 am 
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Penguin

Joined: 21 Dec 2011
Posts: 144
So I got thinking about this after an internet brawl about a popular You Tuber that has some magic and tutorials from very popular marketed effects (outright exposure type tutorials). He has a large following and I found myself arguing with his followers about whether what he was doing was wrong. To my horror he had droves of stupid "magicians" that had no respect for the creators of the magic he was exposing. It really bothers me that we now have so many beginners with access to great magic and zero magic morals!

The reason I titled this thread the way I did was because I feel like a new "magician" comes out with tutorials everyday. If I was to make a list of my least favorite magicians it would get longer everyday wouldn't do any good to the magic community.

As we discussed this topic it threw me off to see how many people who agreed with me, that the You Tuber was in the wrong, yet they still watch and subscribe to his page. What?!?! You agree that exposure is wrong yet you support it?!?! In order to fix this problem we need to search for good replacements for this crap and jam the airwaves with a better alternative.

Let's all subscribe to a handful of good exposure free You Tube channels and unsubscribe to those that expose others creations.

What boggles me, is the amount of pathetic excuses that surface when we talk about people like this. I don't want to hear any crappy excuses I want people to actively oppose it.


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 Post subject: Re: My top 10 LEAST Favorite Magicians!
PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 10:44 pm 
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Penguin

Joined: 27 Jun 2011
Posts: 131
Location: Philippines
I think most younger people look at the internet the way we grew up using the library. If there was a magic book there I could check it out, take it home, and learn from it. Now you can watch YouTube videos. And you will not convince them them this is wrong. I just don't worry about it. Kind of like how the music industry had to completely reinvent itself after the internet, they said cassette tapes would kill the industry. Nope but the internet came close.

I really like watching performances on YouTube to get some ideas for making routines. A reveal video is not going to go as in depth as a well produced magic DVD. Richard Sanders Fiber Optics comes to mind as one of my favorite DVD's. I'm sure you could find most of these tricks revealed on YouTube but not really explained well. The routine, tips & tricks, and explanations just are not on most YouTube videos.

So these newer magicians will not be as well prepared as they need to be, and I bet most have such short attention spans they won't stick to it anyway. So in the long run I don't think it will hurt magic very much.

But some good quality magic channels would be a welcome sight!


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 Post subject: Re: My top 10 LEAST Favorite Magicians!
PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 6:51 am 
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Penguin

Joined: 21 Dec 2011
Posts: 144
I like watching You Tube performances as well. The problem is the tutorials that basically commit magic plagiarism. Plagiarism of the written word is hard enough to prosecute legally let alone magic plagiarism. The belief that there is little we can do, or that we should leave it alone wont help anything. There are things that we can do to help teach good magic morals to the beginners in magic.

My point is that there is good quality You Tube magic out there. There are way too many people that are tolerating blatant exposure of other peoples ideas and not enough people that are supporting good magic on You Tube and the internet.

I'll post some links when I get home but we do have channels by Rob Anderson, Calen Morelli, Rick Lax, Bosco Mind, Theoy11, Wizard FX, Magic Geek, Michael Ammar, and Bending the Real. I think that we can bury the magic rip-off needles in a pile of good magic hay.

We can't get rid of it all but we can swing the odds in our favor!


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 Post subject: Re: My top 10 LEAST Favorite Magicians!
PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:33 am 
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Penguin

Joined: 25 Mar 2013
Posts: 179
Hey Goatears, can you PM me this clowns Youtube name, I'm with you on closing him down. Maybe if Youtube gets enough complaints we can get rid of him. Thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: My top 10 LEAST Favorite Magicians!
PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 3:21 pm 
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Penguin

Joined: 21 Dec 2011
Posts: 144
Just PMed you:) I hope it does something. I've tried to remove copied material on You Tube before and they want proof that you are responsible for the copied material. It was a head ache but I did get a Calen Morelli DVD taken off You Tube eventually.


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 Post subject: Re: My top 10 LEAST Favorite Magicians!
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 11:20 am 
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Penguin

Joined: 21 Dec 2011
Posts: 144
Those You Tubers that have good magic morals need to be put on a pedestal!

Michael Ammar- from what I understand his wife Hannah manages his account. He features full performances from his many DVDs along with a couple tutorials from time to time.
http://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8wSDyGlNCQWbpTj9uXjHdA

Eric Leclerc- This channel was created for Eric's challenge to perform a different trick each day for a year. He finished that project but still posts new videos from time to time.
http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCO0s_GyAKQeXO-9UcFqJSeQ

Rian Miletti- This magician creates his own original magic with the goal to fool magicians. There's a lot of very creative stuff here.
http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCC062FONj0CELyTmfH0rRGQ

Steven Bridges- A polished street magician who posts a new trick every week. He is a very active You Tuber and is devoted to keeping his magic exposure free.
http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqK0ukwGsTDh7sHih1OmLJA

Rob Anderson- This guy is one of my favorite You Tubers in the world. He created the fake tutorial! He posts a new video each week that is usually a magic parody, fake tutorial or funny magic effect. He has won awards for his Criss Angel impression and I think his fake tutorials are a brilliant idea to keep magic secrets safe from the casual web browser.
http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCnvGMeZzTzvJiZvVY8X9Puw

Ellusionist and Revelations- Of course the biggest magic companies out there understand the importance of using the internet to their advantage. Ellusionist posts teasers all the time along with Daniel Madison's personal web series Revelations. At the end of each video you get a simple tutorial of something original from Madison's brain:)
http://www.youtube.com/user/EllusionistVideos/videos

Magic Geek- Chris Balinger is usually the star of these videos. He has hundreds of performances of popular magic, a bunch of magic reviews, tons of funny videos and an interview here and there. This guy is very active on youtube.
http://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0DeUThk5C6BxZP5TTnDGoA

Theory 11- Another magic company that uses the internet like crazy. Here you'll find lots of cool demos and a weekly web series for magic news and publicity called "Expose"
http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCl1WwbVpKUdQerivZpUxZLA

World Magic Shop- These guys have the well known "Wizard Product Review" every Wednesday at 12. They also have a chart show, to see what's trending that week and a daily video demonstration of new magic.
http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCp-UJCv7ACFtbpEEJx6E-Fw

Danny Weiser- He's not really my style but he is a new magic creator and street magician on the scene and has some very visual magic on his channel. Most of which is original to him.
http://www.youtube.com/user/dannyweiser1/feed?activity_view=3

Calen Morelli- Of course this list wouldn't be complete without Calen Morelli. He took the magic world by storm with his 365 project where he created a new original magic trick every day for a year. Things came up and he wasn't able to finish but he now posts a new original video every once in a while. You could spend a couple hours just going through his older videos.
http://www.youtube.com/user/CalenMorelli/videos

Justin Flom- One of my favorite new magic performers to hit the scene is this guy! About once a month he posts a new high quality video of him performing cool street magic or magic from a professional gig. This guy has some fun interactive magic as well :)
http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCb9A6uotqUiuVCvVp4GMqOg

Justin Willman- Another one of my favorite new guys. He has a series by the Nerdist channel. Last year he had a weekly video for a little while. He's posts a new video here and there now for his series "Magic Meltdown". he is also the host of cupcake wars.
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLA9DF188BAF7E2B0D

Zach Mueller- He's one of the hosts on Theory11's "Expose" and is constantly on line. He posts tutorials for original flourishes and has a healthy mix of magic humor Cardistry and magic performance on his channel.
http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCujBiYlw9avXsut3s671X6g

Nate Staniforth- This guy is a great performer and a great magic theorist. He spoke at a TED conference a few years ago and is famous for his in depth thoughts on magic theory. He posts lots of performances and talks on magic theory.
http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCcRC0IBysurO92pu2q2Z9xw

Aaron Fisher- He is a modern master of card magic. His channel is full of simple indepthe magic tutorials explaining lots of the intricacies of card magic. Depending on what he's promoting his videos fluctuate from every week to every couple of months.
http://www.youtube.com/user/aaronbfisher/videos

Bosco Mind- If you are a fan of Derren Brown's early tv series you will probably enjoy Bosco Mind. He is a street mentalist and is very active on You Tube. He has a large following and a site that helps the budding You Tuber get started.
http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIGWZOmyfj5s_n3_JmVging


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 Post subject: Re: My top 10 LEAST Favorite Magicians!
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 4:56 pm 
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Penguin

Joined: 14 Jun 2012
Posts: 67
As far as file sharing and revealing of magic goes, it works on the same basis as everything else in the entertainment industry. Most of these "crimes" either suffer legal prosecution by artists and /or ethical defamation by everyone else.
Legal prosecution is a poor solution because it's playing Whack-a-Mole with literally thousands of moles and a handful of hammers. Just as soon as one is hit, another rises through the holes. If you don't believe me, take a look at the knockoff business of New York city. There's a Rolex verder on every block and, yet, knockoff products are seen to be epidemic to the fashion industry.
The second issue, ethical defamation, is just as ineffective. This is not because making people feel bad doesn't work, it's rather because teaching ethics is rude, weak, and (most importantly) a very personal decision. It's one thing to change someone's mind, but it's another to change something that has been individually developed through several years.
A more effective reasoning would be to ask why revealing magic happens in the first place. Honestly, I can only guess, but I would say because it's easy and gains attention. If I were right, I would start giving more attention to performers whom you agree with. This attention would come in the form of donations, subscribers, and publicity. I believe this method indirectly trains would-be revealers to mimic those who are in better standing, just as people imitate celebrities.


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 Post subject: Re: My top 10 LEAST Favorite Magicians!
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 5:41 pm 
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Penguin

Joined: 21 Dec 2011
Posts: 144
DidymusJames wrote:
As far as file sharing and revealing of magic goes, it works on the same basis as everything else in the entertainment industry. Most of these "crimes" either suffer legal prosecution by artists and /or ethical defamation by everyone else.
Legal prosecution is a poor solution because it's playing Whack-a-Mole with literally thousands of moles and a handful of hammers. Just as soon as one is hit, another rises through the holes. If you don't believe me, take a look at the knockoff business of New York city. There's a Rolex verder on every block and, yet, knockoff products are seen to be epidemic to the fashion industry.
The second issue, ethical defamation, is just as ineffective. This is not because making people feel bad doesn't work, it's rather because teaching ethics is rude, weak, and (most importantly) a very personal decision. It's one thing to change someone's mind, but it's another to change something that has been individually developed through several years.
A more effective reasoning would be to ask why revealing magic happens in the first place. Honestly, I can only guess, but I would say because it's easy and gains attention. If I were right, I would start giving more attention to performers whom you agree with. This attention would come in the form of donations, subscribers, and publicity. I believe this method indirectly trains would-be revealers to mimic those who are in better standing, just as people imitate celebrities.


Exactly! There's an old fable about a farmer and a Leprecaun. The farmer catches the Leprecaun so he is shown his treasure. It is buried under a tree so farmer marks the tree with a ribbon and goes to get his shovel. While he is gone the Leprecaun gets to work tying matching ribbons around all the other trees in the forest. On the farmers return he is perplexed and returns home without any gold.

We as a magic community need to get together and tie some ribbons!

We will never be able to destroy the problem completely but we can try to drown out and dilute the problem. So give these guys support!


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 Post subject: Re: My top 10 LEAST Favorite Magicians!
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 5:53 pm 
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Penguin

Joined: 21 Dec 2011
Posts: 144
On a side note if you have a You Tube page a super easy way to get more views is to post a fake trick tutorial. On my You Tube channel I have just a couple and they have thousands more views!

This is another way to help the problem!


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 Post subject: Re: My top 10 LEAST Favorite Magicians!
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 11:03 pm 
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Penguin

Joined: 27 Jun 2011
Posts: 131
Location: Philippines
I subscribe to Aaron Fisher's page. He gives great lessons and tutorials. But is there really any difference in him posting a card magic tutorial and you or I posting a card magic tutorial? Or is card magic old enough that almost nothing is covered by copyright anymore?

Or is your main complaint the mental 10 year old (actual ages may vary) that feels the need to expose the brand new tricks? Is it ok to post tutorials on cups & balls, ropes, sponges?


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 Post subject: Re: My top 10 LEAST Favorite Magicians!
PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 11:53 am 
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Penguin

Joined: 21 Dec 2011
Posts: 144
Tukaram wrote:
I subscribe to Aaron Fisher's page. He gives great lessons and tutorials. But is there really any difference in him posting a card magic tutorial and you or I posting a card magic tutorial? Or is card magic old enough that almost nothing is covered by copyright anymore?

Or is your main complaint the mental 10 year old (actual ages may vary) that feels the need to expose the brand new tricks? Is it ok to post tutorials on cups & balls, ropes, sponges?


Aaron Fisher is a well respected card mechanic that has been performing with some of the greatest card guys of all time. What he teaches on his site are his original takes on very old classic card moves and the specific subtleties that go along with these moves. Revealing an old move without an author or application is very different from revealing the newest magic trick on Theory11, Penguin or Ellusionist.

Even in the case that Aaron teaches a complete trick, like in the case of the stop trick, he does a few things to keep it out of view of the casual browser. The trick is very old, its author is unknown, the method is one of the first things a magician would ever learn, he posted the video in three parts and kept the videos fairly long for what he was teaching.

In most cases he teaches sleights with out an application, like in the case of the break, DL and the way to hold the deck.

One of the most common complaints from magicians who subscribe to reveal sites is that they are just "learning" from the channel. I don't know if I agree with everything Aaron teaches but in my opinion his is a better alternative than most channels where you learn magic on youtube.


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 Post subject: Re: My top 10 LEAST Favorite Magicians!
PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 12:16 pm 
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Penguin

Joined: 03 Jun 2009
Posts: 45
Yeah i agree that these kid youtubers need a lesson in respect. It's not their method or right to reveal.

The original creator was nice enough to share it with the public, what gives this kid a right to take all the time and work that the creator put into creating effect and revealing it in a 1 minute poorly constructed POS video?

That kid should make vids of him performing in front of a live audience instead. But they probably would defecate all over themselves under that kind of pressure.


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