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 Post subject: Angle ruiners.
PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2006 7:24 pm 
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Joined: 27 Nov 2005
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I was at a party the other night doing a ambitious card routine when the girl I was performing for bent over to look at the bottom of the card I was pressing into the middle of the deck. Her selection was on the top. She didn't see the card but she kept moving around and trying to see my hands from different angles.

It was very annoying. She didn't notice anything but this happens on ocassion. How do you deal with people that are trying to rubber neck into a position where they are going to see an exposed view?

My second question is how do you deal with people that want to put their selected card in a different location in the deck than what the trick calls for? In other words they are trying to trip you up by putting it somewhere different than where you directly tell them to put it. Like in the middle of the deck, where you held a break to return it to the exact location where they took it from.

Thanks all.

Rich 8)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 9:37 am 
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born to perform.

Joined: 26 Jan 2006
Posts: 675
Location: Virginia Beach
Welcome to the Penguin forums.

It's all about crowd control. They should be following your directions. However, in some cases (though very rare cases for me) you will have that spectator that wishes to do everything their way. If it has to be this way, then just force the card on them. Then it doesn't really matter where it goes back in the deck. Then after shuffling you can always turn the deck face up and locate their card while saying something like it is impossible to know what and where the card is. Then just do what you need to do to get the card where it needs to be. There are many ways to do these things, but crowd control is more important. Additionally, once you have identified this kind of person, refrain from doing effects that require their interaction.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 12:06 pm 
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Joined: 12 Mar 2005
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Location: Bath, UK
I'd just push it in,stop and say:

"Can I help you?"

or

"Have you dropped something?"

If they say they were checking you hadn't switched cards you can act slightly offended, and then do a phase using a pass, tilt, vernon replacement or otherwise show that you can't have switched.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 11:24 pm 
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Joined: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 147
Location: Chicago, IL
or back yourself into a corner if your in a house...

but one of my friends little brothers tried to inspect all over my legs and feet when i was performing Self Tying Shoelace, and since i knew him, i used my other foot to kick him and push away from me... that worked good


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 2:23 am 
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Joined: 03 Jul 2005
Posts: 556
Location: South Dakota
i would just push it in and say "just to show you that your card was placed in the middle..if there card is on top but they think they placed there card in the middle do a DL from the top and be like see..this isnt your card.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2006 4:16 pm 
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Location: Chicago
If you have the cash get Daryl's Ultimate Ambition, this is sure to put to rest the most difficult of spectators. I have this same problem some times. I almost always do magic for a crowd of 30 people or more and its always the same 30 people. If you do this for your friends all the time like I do you will learn to read different people and know who you can use and who you cant. I have learned to use females in my presentations since they are 90% more likely to follow directions and not be so difficult. After doing it for them for a while and knowing them all so well I just know who I can use and who I cant for different tricks.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 12:38 am 
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They want to place it somewhere else:

"Who's the magician here? You think you can do this buddy?" Hand him all the cards. He will probably put the card into the deck and try to give them back to you. Say, "No no. You were going to take it from here remember. Bring it to the top now magic boy. (short pause) You suck. (short pause) It's a trick deck. (short pause)" Continue until he gives up and says he can't do it.

I use this on people in bars and on the street. Playing "Stump the Magician" is a hobby fo a lot of them.

If you want to let them place it themselves (this is part of my routine) learn the "spread-cull".

If they are trying to look under the deck:

Angle it more away from them, but don't draw attention to their actions. This tells everyone around that the secret is looking from below.

You can also just cut the deck and peel it over. With this the card is guarded from the bottom and it doesn't matter if they look.


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 Post subject: TO MISTER openwire
PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 12:43 am 
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TO MR. openwire

You stated that you have learned to use females in your performances because they are more likely to follow directions. This is contrary to my experience.

As I have seen women usually want to beat you to prove their intelligence; and men want to help because magic interests most men.

If you don't mind, could you send me a PM telling me where you are located? I have been developing a theory that people in certain areas have certain tendancies. If you would prefer not to, don't worry about it.

Oh nevermind. . . Chicago. It's right under your name.

I'm apparently blind, did I mention that.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 2:32 pm 
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Its best to think of this as a challenge and even an opportunity to really blow someones mind. The "angle ruiner" is obviously skeptical of what you are doing so if you have a very strong trick that will fit into the routine that is a great time to pull it off.

Example, i have an ambitious card video by Brad Christian who is a master at the ambitious card routine. In one clip one of the spectators does this exact thing, she bends down and notices the indifferent card. at this point He just laughs it off and does the visual version with the crimped card. The spectator goes from "i know how you did it nah nah!" to "Holy crap!! how did you do that?!"

That is by far the best way to deal with skeptical spectators... stick to what you know will fool them no matter what.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 3:54 pm 
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Location: Las Vegas, NV/Albuquerque, NM/Pensacola, FL
Crowd control comes with experience. It takes time to develop. I got pretty good pretty quick from performing in high school, but it's something you constantly have to work on.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 6:42 pm 
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Joined: 10 Dec 2005
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Location: President of Cool People Clique-now accepting applications
exodus wrote:
Crowd control comes with experience. It takes time to develop. I got pretty good pretty quick from performing in high school, but it's something you constantly have to work on.


Same here, high school is edited for magicians. If you can learn to manage high schoolers, you will be set for life!


Rob


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 4:21 am 
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Location: London, England
I've never been a fan of giving the deck to someone else and making them look like a fool; It's bad etiquette no matter how much of a jerk the heckler is. It just seems like you're trying to beat the heckler at his own game, when his own game is immaturity.

Here are my suggestions:

Firstly, I just tilt the packet down a bit, and if the spectator crouches on the floor I might drop the deck to my side entirely and ask them if they've dropped something, or that "the trick's up here". As long as you don't make it look like you're hiding something, but just being "careless" in not showing the spectator.

Or there are some convincers you can do, some of which are taught on Daryl's Ambitious Card DVD, involving the use of duplicate cards or "lookalike" cards.

Secondlly, the Ambitious Card, while being a great trick and a classic of magic, is ultimately pointless. There is very little point of the card rising through the deck other than "because you want it to". This can make people want to try and catch you out because, in all fairness, you've challenged them by saying "I can do this and you can't - watch!". A solution to this is to pretend that you're not actually doing anything, and it's the card's fault (that is to say the card is heckling you). Provided that you can play it well, and get sufficiently annoyed by you uncooperative card, you should be able to make spectators forget that you are doing sleight of hand, and therefore lessen their want to try and catch you out.

A suggestion for a routine brought to my attention by Derren Brown: Have a spectator select a card and sign it. It is returned into the deck. Another spectator chooses a card sight unseen, which goes face down on the table. You say that unless spectator 2 selected the signed card the trick won't work and you command the signed card to jump to the top. It does. Say that you'll try it with the second card. Place the first card in the centre of the deck, and begin to reach for the second card, wherein you say, "Okay, the current top card is..." - you turn it over and it is the signed card again. That's strange. You put it in the middle so you can concentrate on doing the trick with the second card but every time you turn the top card over to show it as an indifferent card, it's the signed card again! Finally, aftr trying relentlessly to dispose of the card in the middle of the deck, you finally succeed and it doesn't jump to the top of the deck. Relieved that you can continue with the trick, you take spectator 2's card and for the first time turn it over so you can see what it is. It's the signed card!

With a trick with as much drama as that, people will be less concerned about catching you out, because they are enjoying watching you be caught out already. Plus, as you get more annoyed, you can do the move quicker (while still being clear about it) so the audience won't have time to catch you.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 11:14 am 
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Joined: 19 Dec 2005
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Location: Neptune
Manic_B wrote:
I'd just push it in,stop and say:

"Can I help you?"

or

"Have you dropped something?"

If they say they were checking you hadn't switched cards you can act slightly offended, and then do a phase using a pass, tilt, vernon replacement or otherwise show that you can't have switched.


I like your idea. :) It will probably embarass the person that is trying to look.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 10:08 am 
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Joined: 14 Oct 2003
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you could always ask if they are Edited if they look at you from a strange angle (if its a bloke), :twisted:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 10:46 am 
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Joined: 24 Dec 2004
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Location: Bris'ol - England
jameshp wrote:
you could always ask if they are Edited if they look at you from a strange angle (if its a bloke), :twisted:

Terrible advice. I hope you weren't being serious.


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