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PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 6:00 pm 
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Penguin

Joined: 24 Jun 2006
Posts: 166
Location: over...there
Yeah, that's what I said. Laypeople think he's a fraud but they don't get all serious about it. I also said based on what you said that younger magicians will not look up to him. I only said there is no such thing as "fake" magic because it can't be fake. Magic is what the spectators see in their mind, not what the magician does. If that were the case, then everything would be fake magic. You can't fake an illusion because it would still be just an illusion. There may be nothing magical about him floating between buildings but at least it is special. If you see superman flying, you know it's not real. There are two working methods to that building float that I currently know of but it wouldn't matter because some people will always keep their eyes closed and immediately say, "That's so fake, CAMERA TRICKS!". And as for the awards, if you're still scratching your head, maybe he achieved those awards because he actually worked for it.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 7:34 pm 
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born to perform.

Joined: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 2608
Location: My Mommy Says I Can't Tell You
YummyPie wrote:
Yeah, that's what I said. Laypeople think he's a fraud but they don't get all serious about it. I also said based on what you said that younger magicians will not look up to him. I only said there is no such thing as "fake" magic because it can't be fake. Magic is what the spectators see in their mind, not what the magician does. If that were the case, then everything would be fake magic. You can't fake an illusion because it would still be just an illusion. There may be nothing magical about him floating between buildings but at least it is special. If you see superman flying, you know it's not real. There are two working methods to that building float that I currently know of but it wouldn't matter because some people will always keep their eyes closed and immediately say, "That's so fake, CAMERA TRICKS!". And as for the awards, if you're still scratching your head, maybe he achieved those awards because he actually worked for it.


Wrong, most laypeople don't think he's a fraud, that's why they like him. What I meant was that younger magicians are magicians, they know about gimmicks and sleights, so they might think camera tricks and paid actors are ok as well. When a magician lies, he is doing his job, but he is an "honest liar", but when a magician uses camera tricks to achieve their magic effects, he's a liar period. And for Superman, so Angel is a better magician than Superman because he pretends he is doing magic while Superman doesn't act like he is? At least Superman is honest. As for the awards, I'm still scratching my head because I don't understand what he worked on, thinking of a new way to use the camera for magic, or picking which person to act on his show? Neither of which are respectable or admirable for a magician to do.

-Oztheozzie


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 8:52 pm 
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Penguin

Joined: 24 Jun 2006
Posts: 166
Location: over...there
oztheozzie wrote:
YummyPie wrote:
Yeah, that's what I said. Laypeople think he's a fraud but they don't get all serious about it. I also said based on what you said that younger magicians will not look up to him. I only said there is no such thing as "fake" magic because it can't be fake. Magic is what the spectators see in their mind, not what the magician does. If that were the case, then everything would be fake magic. You can't fake an illusion because it would still be just an illusion. There may be nothing magical about him floating between buildings but at least it is special. If you see superman flying, you know it's not real. There are two working methods to that building float that I currently know of but it wouldn't matter because some people will always keep their eyes closed and immediately say, "That's so fake, CAMERA TRICKS!". And as for the awards, if you're still scratching your head, maybe he achieved those awards because he actually worked for it.


Wrong, most laypeople don't think he's a fraud, that's why they like him. What I meant was that younger magicians are magicians, they know about gimmicks and sleights, so they might think camera tricks and paid actors are ok as well. When a magician lies, he is doing his job, but he is an "honest liar", but when a magician uses camera tricks to achieve their magic effects, he's a liar period. And for Superman, so Angel is a better magician than Superman because he pretends he is doing magic while Superman doesn't act like he is? At least Superman is honest. As for the awards, I'm still scratching my head because I don't understand what he worked on, thinking of a new way to use the camera for magic, or picking which person to act on his show? Neither of which are respectable or admirable for a magician to do.

-Oztheozzie
What are you talking about? He's not a fraud because he's on tv. He doesn't only use camera "tricks" to achieve his effects. They are effect enhancers. Some laypeople like him and some don't. Some think he's a "cheater" and some just lay back and enjoy it (the whole purpose of Mindfreak). Mindfreak is not his whole life. It is his tv show. He is a working magician who became know and respected for his magic and he became famous for his tv show. He is a working magician and did not get awards for his show. He got awards for his magic (not the "illusions" on tv where everyone accuses him). He wanted to share this with the world so he made this show. Sure he may not have been Blaine to do it first but that makes no difference. The only reason why people don't accuse Blaine of using camera trickery and stooges is that he mastered "beginner magic" instead of large stage illusions like Criss Angel. Criss Angel is rich and if he didn't want us to know it was just entertainment, he would have done a better job filming his illusions. And what is this Superman talk? Superman is not even a magician so how can you say something as ridiculous as that? Everyone knows it is acting and that it's special effects. Criss Angel can do the same. So what? Does that mean he's doing it? What about the people who believe him? It is magic to them. Magic is not just "fooling" the spectators. It is making them believe and feel wonder. And as for younger magicians, did you pay attention to what I said earlier? Think about what you're saying. You said that camera tricks and stooges are wrong. I'm not saying it's okay but don't you think younger magicians will feel the same way? They had to have found out in some point that he was "fake". Do you think they will do the same? Do they even have the ability? How many people are good enough magicians to have the respect to be on tv? Sure, anyone can be on tv with the money and stuff but do you honestly think that people will accept a tv show with some guy just "faking" it? No, you have to master the art and have a dream to gain the respect and awards that Criss Angel has. Out of all the tricks he's done, I see none that are dependent on camera editing.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 9:00 pm 
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Emperor Penguin

Joined: 15 Mar 2005
Posts: 6448
Hmm... Real or fake?

Name to me one magc trick that enables you to really use real magic, and I'll get back to you on that one.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 10:48 pm 
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born to perform.

Joined: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 2608
Location: My Mommy Says I Can't Tell You
Magic_Matts wrote:
Hmm... Real or fake?

Name to me one magc trick that enables you to really use real magic, and I'll get back to you on that one.


When I say a real magician, I mean a magician who does real illusions, not illusions of illusions.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 10:59 pm 
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born to perform.

Joined: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 2608
Location: My Mommy Says I Can't Tell You
YummyPie wrote:
oztheozzie wrote:
YummyPie wrote:
Yeah, that's what I said. Laypeople think he's a fraud but they don't get all serious about it. I also said based on what you said that younger magicians will not look up to him. I only said there is no such thing as "fake" magic because it can't be fake. Magic is what the spectators see in their mind, not what the magician does. If that were the case, then everything would be fake magic. You can't fake an illusion because it would still be just an illusion. There may be nothing magical about him floating between buildings but at least it is special. If you see superman flying, you know it's not real. There are two working methods to that building float that I currently know of but it wouldn't matter because some people will always keep their eyes closed and immediately say, "That's so fake, CAMERA TRICKS!". And as for the awards, if you're still scratching your head, maybe he achieved those awards because he actually worked for it.


Wrong, most laypeople don't think he's a fraud, that's why they like him. What I meant was that younger magicians are magicians, they know about gimmicks and sleights, so they might think camera tricks and paid actors are ok as well. When a magician lies, he is doing his job, but he is an "honest liar", but when a magician uses camera tricks to achieve their magic effects, he's a liar period. And for Superman, so Angel is a better magician than Superman because he pretends he is doing magic while Superman doesn't act like he is? At least Superman is honest. As for the awards, I'm still scratching my head because I don't understand what he worked on, thinking of a new way to use the camera for magic, or picking which person to act on his show? Neither of which are respectable or admirable for a magician to do.

-Oztheozzie
What are you talking about? He's not a fraud because he's on tv. He doesn't only use camera "tricks" to achieve his effects. They are effect enhancers. Some laypeople like him and some don't. Some think he's a "cheater" and some just lay back and enjoy it (the whole purpose of Mindfreak). Mindfreak is not his whole life. It is his tv show. He is a working magician who became know and respected for his magic and he became famous for his tv show. He is a working magician and did not get awards for his show. He got awards for his magic (not the "illusions" on tv where everyone accuses him). He wanted to share this with the world so he made this show. Sure he may not have been Blaine to do it first but that makes no difference. The only reason why people don't accuse Blaine of using camera trickery and stooges is that he mastered "beginner magic" instead of large stage illusions like Criss Angel. Criss Angel is rich and if he didn't want us to know it was just entertainment, he would have done a better job filming his illusions. And what is this Superman talk? Superman is not even a magician so how can you say something as ridiculous as that? Everyone knows it is acting and that it's special effects. Criss Angel can do the same. So what? Does that mean he's doing it? What about the people who believe him? It is magic to them. Magic is not just "fooling" the spectators. It is making them believe and feel wonder. And as for younger magicians, did you pay attention to what I said earlier? Think about what you're saying. You said that camera tricks and stooges are wrong. I'm not saying it's okay but don't you think younger magicians will feel the same way? They had to have found out in some point that he was "fake". Do you think they will do the same? Do they even have the ability? How many people are good enough magicians to have the respect to be on tv? Sure, anyone can be on tv with the money and stuff but do you honestly think that people will accept a tv show with some guy just "faking" it? No, you have to master the art and have a dream to gain the respect and awards that Criss Angel has. Out of all the tricks he's done, I see none that are dependent on camera editing.


I never said he was a fraud just because he was on TV. People DO accuse Blaine of camera tricks and stooges, it's just that he use them way less Angel does. And he didn't master Beginner tricks to become famous, how is the simple switch beginner, his mentalism, cold reading, hot shot cut, shapeshifter change, decapitation of a chicken, raising birds from the dead, and so much more impressive effects he have done are beginner tricks? It's funny you think Blaine has less skills when he spends hours perfecting cards sleights when Angel spends so much less time filming his camera tricks. I agree, magic is about fooling and entertaining the spectator, but Angel does it in an unfair way, he cheated. Young magicians will at some point find out there is no real magic and that there is always some secret way to achieve the illusions, they know magic is fake, so they may think camera tricks and paid actors are ok ways to achieve the effects since their hero does it. You have never seen an Angel effect that is dependant on camera tricks? How bout his Building Float, or the Puddle Vanish/Teleport whatever it is?

-Oztheozzie


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 1:05 am 
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Penguin

Joined: 25 Jun 2006
Posts: 17
YummyPie wrote:
:roll: There was no arguement. .

Rofl.... no argument my [edited]
oztheozzie wrote:

At least Superman is honest.
-Oztheozzie

ROFLMAO.... Yes oz.... thank god for that

YummyPie wrote:
What's a television show?

A television show is what people use to fill their wallets when their magic show left empty seats
YummyPie wrote:
(you can't get awards for doing camera tricks)

"And Now the Nominees for best bullcrap(edited) magician.... Mindfreak.... or Masked Magician.... or that guy from E" thats a tossup (actually i like brad... he taught me the pass...)

Anywho.... lets have a synopsis... Yummypie... you should go into law, you might get people like OJ, Micheal Jackson, Scott Peterson off... theres good money in a good arguer...
Oz... dude... you dont "have a bad attitude" your just concerned about the future generation of magicians... which includes me... so thank you... from now on im gonna call you "dad".... Yummypie... go have a slice of yourself... *chuckle* Dad... thanks for looking out for me


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 1:08 am 
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born to perform.

Joined: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 2608
Location: My Mommy Says I Can't Tell You
Brickhouse wrote:
YummyPie wrote:
:roll: There was no arguement. .

Rofl.... no argument my [edited]
oztheozzie wrote:

At least Superman is honest.
-Oztheozzie

ROFLMAO.... Yes oz.... thank god for that

YummyPie wrote:
What's a television show?

A television show is what people use to fill their wallets when their magic show left empty seats
YummyPie wrote:
(you can't get awards for doing camera tricks)

"And Now the Nominees for best bullcrap(edited) magician.... Mindfreak.... or Masked Magician.... or that guy from E" thats a tossup (actually I like brad... he taught me the pass...)

Anywho.... lets have a synopsis... Yummypie... you should go into law, you might get people like OJ, Micheal Jackson, Scott Peterson off... theres good money in a good arguer...
Oz... dude... you dont "have a bad attitude" your just concerned about the future generation of magicians... which includes me... so thank you... from now on im gonna call you "dad".... Yummypie... go have a slice of yourself... *chuckle* Dad... thanks for looking out for me


You're welcome son, but I'm not sure who your mom is especially since I'm 15 :lol: Hope she's hot.


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 Post subject: Angel
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 11:36 pm 
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Penguin

Joined: 02 Sep 2007
Posts: 140
Angel uses stooges...in obvious ways...ways which get noticed...which is tantamount to revealing the secret to the audience. He gives magic a bad name, because any audience member who is not drunk sees through the trick...which ruins things for other magicians. How you can be against revealing, and be for Chris Angel, mystifies me.


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