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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 5:41 pm 
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clownzippo,
Any of the cups you listed would be great. I haven't heard exactly when Gazzo cups will be made available, but rumor has it they'll be made by RNT2.

You're on the right track. If all you can afford are Johnsons, there's absolutely nothing wrong with them. If you want to pay more, and get more (larger cups) then do that. The Phoenix II cups are solidly made and will hold a load similar to the Johnson cups.

I prefer unlacquered, spun copper cups. They have a more "organic" feel to them and look at home on the street or festival. Highly polished brass or computer machined cups such as the Johnsons simply don't appeal to me.

I used to use Jumbo cups, but have since learned that I feel more comfortable with a mid-size cup due to the easier handling of multiple balls in one hand. Also, opening your hand wide enough to grasp a Jumbo size cup ran the risk of exposing the inside of my hand. I now have two sets: A baseball size set and a tennis ball size set with slightly smaller balls to match. They're only about 1/4 inch smaller but that's really all it takes between comfortable handling and "too big."

It really boils down now to price and personal taste.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 7:22 pm 
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Thanx : I know Dave and Paddy are the best on this subject so i'm relying on them for pretty much which cups to buy.

Dave I was also thinking of getting a mid size cup also.
What are the dimensions of your cups?

As for weather Brass;Copper odr Silver I was probably going to go with the copper. YOu said they look at home on the streets right? This is what i'm going for.

As for the price I'm not to adiment about it, but then again I'm not made of money. I could always save up enough.

So the pheonix11 cups are good?
I was thinking about the Sisti Profesional Cups. any good?\


P.S. I'm getting the Gazzo dvd on friday so that will help me alot

thanx


Thanx for your help Dave I really appreciate it.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 8:18 pm 
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If you're getting the Gazzo routine, and want to perform it the way he teaches it, you'll want the largest cups you feel comfortable handling.

Most of the RNT2 cups are 2 1/2 inches wide, so it just boils down to what looks good to you. This size will typically accept a tennis or maybe a lacrosse ball (cup dimensions do vary slightly, as do the balls themselves. Take your cups with you to the store to be sure what will fit). My cups measure about 2 3/4 and 3 inches, slightly bigger than the RNT2 cups but smaller than the SBL or Gazzos. They're both by Gary Animal, the guy who used to make the Gazzo cups. Trouble is, neither one is commercially available any more.

The original Phoenix cups weren't that great. The "attic" space between nested cups was very small, they wobbled when stacked, and they wouldn't take a tennis ball due to the tapered cone shape of the cup. The Phoenix II has improved on these flaws, raising the bead to give more attic space, rounded the shape a bit to take a better load, and because of that the wobbling got better. I haven't seen the new ones in person, but knowing who is now making them, I'm sure they're great.

The SBL Jumbo cups are 3 1/2 inches wide! They would be perfect for the large loads in the Gazzo routine. They will easily take a baseball with room to spare. Trouble is, they're $325 instead of $100 for the Sisti, JES, or Monti cups.

The Gazzos, when they become available again will probably be in the $300-$400 range as well, but I'm just guessing based on the past history of cups of this size. The raw material cost of larger cups is a lot more than for the smaller ones. You simply can't get them any cheaper.

So, again it's up to you. Any one of their offerings at $100 will do fine. They are all better than the best cups offered here, and they are about half the price of the Johnson brass cups. Unless you seriously want some huge cups, I'd save the $250 to spend on other things.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 12:24 am 
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Get the secret art of street magic, I picked it up and it has amazing tips on how to deal with crowds, which effects to do and such.

http://www.ellusionist.com/order/secret ... RY%20ID%7D


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 2:04 am 
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Great choice! I met one of the authors a few weeks ago. He really knows his stuff. This is a "must have" book for anyone who wants to get started in street work. It would also benefit performers working festivals and trade shows as well as the same techniques would apply.

This book is officially "out of print" so the only ones left are the ones in the hands of the dealers. Once they're gone, that's it.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 2:10 pm 
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I might sell myy copy, because as good as it is I bought it when I was starting and thought it would teach me tricks and such. I realize how good the book is now, but just aren't going to use it.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 4:25 pm 
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Thanx Magickidd I'll have to look into those Dvds.

DaveV: I'm going to look into the SBL cups or the PheonixII Cups

Thanx

So I will let you know after I get the Gazzo Dvd weather or not I'm going to do his routine= Large or Mediam sized cups? I'll let you know.

THanx


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 9:53 am 
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I have recieved the Gazzo dvd. It is amazing I have already watched it 3 times and i've only had it for a day. If your looking into busking and especially the cups and balls this is a must have dvd. I have decided I'm going to do Gazzo's routine, but change a few things in it to make it my own. I like the way he loads the cups and everything. So yes I'm going to get large cups.
A few of my selections that I have found and they might be good are:
http://www.rnt2.com/product.aspx?productno=198
http://www.rnt2.com/product.aspx?productno=212
http://www.rnt2.com/product.aspx?productno=217

Those are a few of my choices that I'm looking into, so if you have any pointers or anything you would like to add it would be appreciated.


Thanx


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 11:06 am 
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Any of the RNT cups are excellent. Get the dimensions of the cups and try to get something very close to that to try out the feel of them before you decide which cups to get.

I had some big cups that I really liked because of the loads I could get in them. But after trying Gazzo's cups I found that they fitted my hand so much better. The better the cups feel in your hands the better you can perform with them.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 12:31 pm 
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Also, try various size balls first too.

If you can't comfortably hold two 1 1/4 balls in one hand while picking up another, the three balls under one cup move might give you problems. That's why I do only the 2-0-2 move instead, and eventually reduced the balls down to 1 inch.

Too small, and your hand looks clenched. Too big and you risk flashing.

Once you get that figured out, find whatever cup will fit three balls comfortably without sticking. I've had some balls jam under the cup causing them not to release when I lift the cup.

My current combination is a "Love" cup (smaller version of Gazzo, same maker) which takes a tennis ball load, and a set of 1" white leather monkey fist balls.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 12:29 pm 
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Thanks Dave and Apddy you guys really know what your talking about. I will definetley have to try something in similar size before I go buying the cups. The same thing with the balls. I'm going to buy a set of the soccer balls Gazzo uses from www.magicpitch.com A really good website. Thank you guys for all that you havehelped me with. Do either one of yo have the gazzo dvd? Its excellent. I'm going to look into building one of his tables. Based on the same ideas, but then again In will change it alittle to best suit me. Also I'm goingto invest in a pouch from www.theambitiouscard.com Along with a hat. Heres my list:
Hat
Stick (wand)
Table
Base(For table)
Cups
Balls
Pouch

Thats alot of stuff for one routine but its all worth it in the end.
If you guys could show some pictures o yo ur stuff it would be appreciated. Thanks.

Now Paddy I understand that you do a chop cup routine. Do you find that this routine gets larger or smaller hats than the Gazzo routine with the three cups? How many final loads do you produce with the chop cup?Thanx!


Thank you guys.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 10:01 am 
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Paddy? Dave?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 12:53 pm 
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clownzippo wrote:
...Now Paddy I understand that you do a chop cup routine. Do you find that this routine gets larger or smaller hats than the Gazzo routine with the three cups? How many final loads do you produce with the chop cup?Thanx!
Thank you guys.


I took Gazzo's master class in VA and learned his cups and balls. Then last summer I met Kozmo and worked with him while he was in Cincinnati. Both are beyond description, and they both take the time to teach you anything you want to know [edited] long as you're sincere and not just trying to find out the secrets.

Well Kozmo taught me the chop cup routine. It is tied into another trick that "fails," where you borrow a $20 bill from someone in the crowd have them sign it, and when you show them that the new bills are "fireproof" it flashes into nothing. Then you show him the chop cup routine so he won't "feel so bad about losing the $20." He ends the chop cup routine by producing 2 lemons, he has a kid pick out one of the lemons and then cuts it open to find the signed $20 bill.

That routine when used in a sidewalk show has made me MONEY!!! When doing a circle show Gazzo's cups and balls is the winner. So I do use both depending on if I am running a circle or a sidwalk show.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 3:25 pm 
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I new that you met Gazzo but didn't know you also met Kosmo. Thats awesome. That really is a great and excellent idea for a chop cup routine. I myself might have to look into getting a chop cup for a small sidewalk show like you said. Don't worry I'm not going to steal your routine and ideas. I just want to let you know that thats a cool routine. Do you reccomend any nice chop cups for the street? I mean durable ones. Thanx

P.S. In my tip building trick post I was wondering of a good card trick that is ideal for the streets. Meaning you could do it surronded and what not. Preferably a signed card to pocket,wallet,etc. If you or anyone else could let me know it would be appreciated.


Thanx


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 4:16 pm 
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paddy?

Anyone else like to post.


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