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 Post subject: Question on Invisible deck
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2007 11:47 pm 
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Joined: 05 Jul 2007
Posts: 26
Hi all,

I am not new to magic but to card magic. I did thumb-tip and IET tricks for a while now, and am ready for a new flavor of magic. I am thinking about buying Invisible deck first or that with Brainwave deck. I did search the forum on that but couldn't find an answer to my question below.

Now my question is do I also need to purchase a regular deck along with those? If my invisible deck is, say, blue bicycle, then my regular deck should match that as well? Also, what's a good instruction DVD to start with?

Thank you all for your time answering...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2007 12:21 am 
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born to perform.

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You don't need a regular deck although a lot of tricks in the booklet have one. I reccomend getting a deck that matches the invisible deck as well as the booklet. I don't know about a dvd.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2007 8:45 am 
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born to perform.

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Location: President of the Sluggo for U.S. President Committee
Get the Invisible Deck, not the Brainwave. You don't need any instructions other than the one it comes with. Create your own routine.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 4:33 pm 
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You don't need a regular deck to perform the standard routine but i think every magician should have at least one deck of cards. If someone asked you to show them a card trick and you don't have any cards, or worst still don't know any card tricks then they are going to find it hard taking you seriously as a magician.

However, I wish to recommend a deck that you can purchase to use with the Invisible Deck. The deck has endless possibilities but it's strongest use is probabaly with the invisible deck.

I did create a post called "How To Make The Invisible Deck Routine 10,000 Times Stronger" which i was going to link to but i might as well past it into here. I'm aware that i've ranted about this deck before and most of you will have to ignore this post but maybe there's some "fresh blood" in Magic. :twisted:

I would imagine that almost everyone on this forum has the Invisible Deck. Has anyone ever experianced this from a spec?..

Magi: "I have a deck of cards here with 1 card turned face down. i did it last night (or last week or whatever presentation you use)"what i want you to do is take this invisible/ imaginary deck of cards and turn 1 card face down... ect.... ok so you have turned over 1 card... ect..." What was the card you turned face down?"

Spec being a smart a*s: "If you have already turned a card face down why dont you show me the cards and 1 face down card THEN i will tell you what my card was." Or whatever.
As you can imagine it totaly messes up the effect.

Has that ever happened to you? Why wait until it does?

Imagine this. You lay 2 decks on the table and ask the spectator to pick one up. They put one deck in their pocket and hand you the other. You remove the cards from the case and give them a fair shuffle and cut. (you don't have to).

You then explain that most people never trust a magician's shuffle so you are going to let them shuffle. You then exlplain that gamblers invented cards with special marks on the back so they could see what their players had in a game of Poker or Blackjack and that phoney magicians found these cards and pretended to be Real Magicians. (you don't have to, this is just my presentation.)

After saying this you hand the spectator the deck and tell them that in the interest of fairness you are going to leave the room. They are to shuffle and cut the deck as much as they, take off the top card, have a look at it and put it in their pocket. When they've done this they are to call you back in. (You can also tell them to put it in their pocket without looking at it.)

You enter the room and ask them if they're happy that you couldn't possibly know what their card is. Which of course they are. And at this point you honestly don't know what their card is! You then ask for the deck they've had in their pocket since the effect began. You spread through a face up deck and show a single face down card.

You remove this card and place it to the table. Only now do you ask them to remove their card and place it next to yours. After a bit of build up the spetator turns over the cards and they are the exact same card :!:

No card switches or any funny moves. No slight of hand required! You don't even need to see their card, front or back to know what it is!

The deck is called the Rama Deck. Google that and you will find a few sites selling it now. I'll try to upload a vid onto you-tube to show how strong the effect is.

About 6 months ago it was only avalible in the U.k. i don't know about now but if it still only avalible in the U.K. and you're from the U.S, or anywhere else for that matter, then it really is worth getting. Not many, if any, other magicians in your country, (never mind local area!) will know about this deck.

You learn that routine and 3 other very hard hitting effects. You can also create your own effects with the deck, the deck is completly examinable and can be used as a regular deck too :!: Simply do the 4 effects you learn, then any others you create, and believe me you will, then you can carry on using it as your regular deck for the rest of the performance.

I use this deck to perform a mind blowing book test. There's a lot in the presentation but basically a spec shuffles and cuts the cards as much as they like, they can take the top 2 cards or they can cut the deck and remove 2 cards from the middle. They add the numbers together and choose (a free choice) any book they like. They have a coice of 10 different books that are all regular books that they can examine.

They choose the book, turn to the page number and read that page to themselves. I then ask them to draw as best they can the scene they read about. I too draw a scene i think i'm picking up on. (I should point out that i don't glimpse their drawing or page number or anything...)

We both show our drawing and they are of the same scene. Obviously the idea of using cards to select a page in a book is no new idea, but most methods use forces or set ups which require the performer to either not shuffle or to false shuffle the deck and does not allow the spectator to shuffle. In my book test the spectator can shuffle and cut the deck as much as they like. And i also think it's better to have them draw a general scene from from the page they read rather than to pick a single word or sentance from the page.

Well, that was a long post wasn't it?.. lol. Anyway i highly recommend this deck to everyone who doesn't have it.


Last edited by wallis666 on Mon Jul 16, 2007 4:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 4:50 pm 
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born to perform.

Joined: 19 Nov 2006
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if youre a beginner you shouldnt get the invisible deck...
its way too easy to do... you wont learn any usefull sleights so youre basicly paying for your spectators' reactions...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 4:53 pm 
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daniel116 wrote:
if youre a beginner you shouldnt get the invisible deck...
its way too easy to do... you wont learn any usefull sleights so youre basicly paying for your spectators' reactions...


Sorry Daniel but i disagree. I'm usually telling people to invest in books and DVD's to learn the art but i think if the effect is strong enough then it's worth doing. Whatever your skill. The I.D is perfect for beginners because it doesn't require any skill.

However, with that said i do still hold my opinion that you should learn slights and techniques, patter and presentation, misdirection, showmanship, ect... more than packet tricks...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:24 pm 
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Location: God's Country
Go with the Invisible Deck; I made the mistake of thinking Brainwave looked better and I've barely used it. The 'kicker' ending makes it really unfeasable in 50% of all performances.

I've been coming up with presentation ideas for the ID, soon as I get one I'm going to work it to death (!) but the beauty of the deck is that it's so easy to do there's a million and one ways to present it. Buy one and play with it loads, you'll find a presentation that fits you perfectly.

32


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 10:54 pm 
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Location: President of the davidcon fan club. (Always welcoming new members)
daniel116 wrote:
if youre a beginner you shouldnt get the invisible deck...
its way too easy to do... you wont learn any usefull sleights so youre basicly paying for your spectators' reactions...


I highly disagree. You can accomplish amazing effects with the invisible deck that you can't with just sleight of hand.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 3:54 am 
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the invisible deck is a great tool, but not for a beginner who needs to learn and master as much sleights as he can...
i mean, there are zero sleights in the ID... its a self working trick.
it WILL shock your spectators but you wont gain any skill from using it.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 4:39 am 
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born to perform.

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Location: God's Country
But you will gain self-confidence in your magic, and performance skills, which possibly more important than any sleight you can mention.

Sure, you need to learn the sleights to perform sleight of hand magic, and to base your entire working repertoire on gimmicks and self workers may not be a good idea, but as I discussed in my essay No Skill Required working with effects like the Invisible Deck when you're starting on the road to magic performance can be an enormous help; the lack of sleights means you can concentrate on presentation and you will better yourself in that respect. Although, obviously I would encourage the beginner to work his/her way through as many good starter texts as possible at the same time, thus bringing their mechanical skill to a level no too distant from par excellence.

To suggest that you can't gain ANY skill from using an Invisible Deck is (in my opinion) nonsense.
in No Skill Required, povallsky wrote:
I recommend using self working tricks and gimmicked tricks as the perfect playground for trying out your misdirection, you've nothing to hide granted but if you can make the spectators look away when you want them to you can apply this in your sleight magic.
We can practice and gain skills in misdirection. We can practice and gain skills in audience management. We can practice and gain confidence in our ability to entertain and amaze actual human people.

Buy yourself an Invisible Deck and you can practice so many of your performance skills you will need to become a fully matured performer of what ever branch of magic you choose, as well as being able to practice your creativity in coming up with a way to present it that isn't in the instructions. More than just a good gimmicked deck there I feel, a veritable tool for helping beginner and intermidiate magicians better themselves.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 7:40 am 
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wallis666 wrote:
Has anyone ever experianced this from a spec?..

Spec being a smart a*s: "If you have already turned a card face down why dont you show me the cards and 1 face down card THEN i will tell you what my card was." Or whatever.
As you can imagine it totaly messes up the effect.


No. If it does, that's a sure sign that you need to work on your presentation.


The Rama deck is a great tool, but it is not an invisible or brainwave deck replacement. The Rama deck is not self working. First of all, it requires memorization of a system. Second of all, things can go wrong with the Rama deck. If you get a spectator who is a card player or otherwise accustomed to cutting the deck or shuffling the cards in a different way, you have an uphill battle in your hands as you now have to manipulate them into doing it the way you need them to rather than the way they are accustomed to.

wallis666 wrote:
the deck is completly examinable


No, it isn't.

It will pass casual inspection by anyone unfamiliar with cards, but it will not stand up to scrutiny by someone who plays poker regularly or is otherwise very familiar with playing cards, or by someone who is specifically looking for something tricky in the cards.

wallis666 wrote:
Simply do the 4 effects you learn


Four card based mentalism effects in a row? Only if you intend to bore your spectators.

wallis666 wrote:
then you can carry on using it as your regular deck for the rest of the performance


But if you do, you will have to take a considerable amount of time for reset before you can use the Rama again.

For beginners, the invisible deck and brainwave are still much better options, as is the stripper deck.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 4:05 pm 
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odomenech wrote:
The Rama deck is a great tool, but it is not an invisible or brainwave deck replacement.


It isn't meant to be used as a replacement for the I.D, but to be used alongside it to enhance the effect.

That said i do agree with a lot of what has been said but i still hold my opinion that the deck is worth having. The vast majority of our performances are for complete lay audiances who don't inspect cards closely and have very little or no experiance in even holding a deck of cards. Just because one or two people in every 100 may know it isn't a completly normal deck doesn't mean you should discount it so easily.

Also, what you said about remembering a set up, if you can count to 13 your all set so i don't understand what you mean. It's uses exactly the same set up as the I.D does...

Please don't think i'm saying all of this to be an a*s, i'm trying to defend the deck, yes, that's only because i like it so much as it's served me VERY well in performances, not because i need it, but because it really does make the I.D routine so much stronger. And i also use it for other routines, such as my book test and a few other orignal effects.

P.S. the part about "has this happened to you... ect..." was simply pasted from an advertisement. I do agree that if it does happen you need to work on your presentation. The "do the 4 effects you learn... ect..." was also pasted...

I'm just curious, Odo, do you have the deck? Do you use it?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 8:35 pm 
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Posts: 3441
wallis666 wrote:
odomenech wrote:
The Rama deck is a great tool, but it is not an invisible or brainwave deck replacement.

That said i do agree with a lot of what has been said but i still hold my opinion that the deck is worth having.


I agree with you. It's definitely worth having. But I don't think it's for beginners.

wallis666 wrote:
The vast majority of our performances are for complete lay audiances who don't inspect cards closely and have very little or no experiance in even holding a deck of cards.


Speak for yourself. The rise of texas hold 'em means that many of us are now working with audiences who are very familiar with cards very often.

wallis666 wrote:
Also, what you said about remembering a set up, if you can count to 13 your all set so i don't understand what you mean. It's uses exactly the same set up as the I.D does...


I didn't say a set up, I said a sytem. Think about it for a while. I can't say more without exposure.

wallis666 wrote:
I'm just curious, Odo, do you have the deck? Do you use it?


I have it and have used it, but don't do so regularly. The type of performances I've been doing lately don't lend themselves to mentalism.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 10:16 pm 
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Joined: 17 Jul 2007
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Hello,

In my Opinion, I would get a svengali deck. Those are very fun, and get very big reactions!

Also, it would be nice to get 3-4 Bicycle decks, and learn some nice magic tricks.

I am currently ordering Born to Perform my Oz Pearlman, and the reviews are great, so I hope the tricks and sleights are too.


Good luck with card magic!


And remember - ALWAYS wash your hands before dealing with a card deck, they can get sticky and dirty if you don't from the oils in your hand.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 11:24 am 
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If you know how to make a brainwave deck, you can make 2, different colored ones and when someone names a card it's the only blue card turned over in a red deck and the only red card turned over in a blue deck.


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