Horrible they originally said richard would teach Magic vs. Mentalism
Par Optic Vision
Syd Bergson Center Tear
Al Mann’s Azonic
and cassidy was supposed to His classic Diary Effect
The White Dwarf
The Name/Place routine
And, a few of his favorite mental card
Very disapointed !!!
They were supposed to teach more effects like : diary effect , name place routine , notaria...
Penguin inform about that
Nothing of thèse effects in the lecture !!
Now penguin change the content
Funny how the nasty comments always come from anonymous posters. If you guys think that a lecture should be just one trick taught after another, you've completely missed the point, particularly when it comes to mentalism.
The fact is that we went for about four hours non-stop, and tried to cover every question that was called in to us.
Ok Bob , but when you buy a product with a spécific content you are waiting to have it ....
In that case , it was not the right content !
I appreciate also to see you performing live your signature effects even if i know the secret ...
If i am disanpointed it si because penguin sells a download with a false content !!
It´s the first time
Bob ignore people these trick and move monkeys. All they want to learn is the lastest and greatest. You know that you tipped GOLD and I wish more lectures were formatted this way. What people don't realize is that it is the theory that makes the effect.
I thank you for telling such good advice that I'll actually use.
Thank you, taranew. It's good to know that someone actually understood what we were doing. I sincerely hope that guys like these don't ever try to inflict the public with whatever it is they seem to think is magic or mentalism. It's really sad.
its not about how we do its why we do it
Bob and co, I think the point they are making is simply the lecture did not deliver what was advertised. I understand what you were trying to achieve was a little different and that's okay, but it was not advertised as "2 guru's shoot the breeze about mentalism". What was advertised was a specific list and therefore viewers expectations were not met in the 4 and 3/4 hours. That does not mean the commentators are terrible mentalists or move monkeys. Simply the feedback was the lecture did not deliver what was advertised. And they have a point, it did not. Maybe penguin management got your intentions wrong or maybe they did not convey their expectations to you fully - I don't know, I wasn't there, and that's just finger pointing. In short, the lecture was different to what was advertised and that's their point. You can choose to hear their comments and learn for the future or make broad statements that their magic is no good based on their disappointment that your lecture was substantially different from what was advertised. Oh and for the record, I too have really enjoyed many of the lectures that are big on discussions and light on trick count.
Good points both ways.
Perhaps the Penguins could cover their feathers by saying
"Among the effects that could be presented might be such stunners as..."
Yeah there was a break down in communication somewhere, all the other lectures seem to nail or go pretty darn close to what was advertised. There is some factor here that caused this discrepancy and we would just be guessing what it was. I'm sure Penguin will be on to it in the future. Just as it is for the audience, every lecture is a learning experience for Penguin, and overall Penguin do a pretty great job.
Does anyone else pay attention to the part that says set list subject to change? Quit whining about it and appreciate what was taught.
I'm surprised by the negative comments because I thought it was one of the best mentalism lectures I've seen ( over a 40 year time span ).
But, I'm sure when Jesus gave his "Sermon on the Mount", a few came away complaining:
"I thought Jesus would serve lunch. This sucks because I could have gone to a stoning instead".
"What's with all the how to get into Heaven nonsense talk. I thought Jesus was going to change rocks into gold".
I can picture Dr. Bob in a bar, with Ricky Nelson playing in the background:
"But it's all right now
I learned my lesson well
You see, ya can't please everyone
So ya got to please yourself"
HI ALL !
The negative point of this post was : the lecture did not deliver what was advertised (on the first lecture content posted by Penguin) by penguin magic !! I don’t understand why you try (Bob and others) to explain about your mentalism approch ;it’s not the subject ….
When a customer is not happy it’s important to understand why …
But with mt basic English perhaps it was not so clear
Ziggzb: where is the "set list subject to change" disclaimer located?
That would render this whole thread kind of moot.
Sorry, but you're way out of line. Way out of line.
1) Nasty comments always come from anonymous posters? A bit of an exaggeration isn't it?
Regardless, you act like people are afraid to post their real names, as if.... as if WHAT Bob? Why would anyone be "afraid"? Don't be ridiculous. It's embarrassing.
2) You think those comments are "nasty"? You obviously have a low threshold for criticism. There is NOTHING "nasty" in those comments.
3) No one said anything about thinking a lecture should be about one trick taught after another. No one.
4) As others have pointed out, the criticism is that the lecture was not what it was advertised to be. THAT is undeniable.
You completely ignored the actual point that was made and gave an obvious straw man response that makes you look defensive and thin-skinned.
I've watched the lecture 2 more times and performed the Henry Hardin effect that Bob Cassidy taught. I got one of the biggest reactions I've ever gotten to a piece of Mentalism ( 40 years ).
Guess what? It wasn't listed in the original ad. I'd have paid the price of the lecture just for that effect.
This has become my favorite lectures from Penguin. The conversation between Bob and Richard where thought provoking and the effects are some of the finest in the Mentalism genre.
I posted this in another thread here. But for those who may have missed it and have said I'm "out of line" (Wow!) here it is again:
I normally never respond to reviews and I apologize for being a bit short with those who were disappointed that I didn't cover certain items. I accept responsibility for that. We were also trying, though, to answer all of the questions that were being called in live during the lecture.
Overall, Richard and I were very happy with it. And, for the most part, those who are familiar with my writings, DVD's and previous lectures expressed to us on different forums that they wanted us to focus on theory as well as on areas where we disagreed.
But I do understand the disappointment of those who wanted me to spend more time on specific effects.
So here's what I decided to do. Anyone (who purchased the lecture) can email me at firstname.lastname@example.org and I will be happy to send you a complimentary copy of my 29 page eBook, "The Art of Mentalism 2." (Which later was included in "The Artful Mentalism of Bob Cassidy" in 2002) It includes complete performance details of my opener, my book test sequence, the name/place routine and my card memory act.
This offer is good for the next ten days and is primarily for those who purchased to lecture prior to it's airing. (The description in the ad copy has now been changed to accurately reflect what was actually covered.)
I'm sure that those of you not familiar with the material in that book will be able to return to the lecture later and get a lot more out of the many things we were discussing and describing.
Thanks to all of you for watching our lecture. (And I hope you all realize that Richard and I have been friends for over thirty-five years and we had a lot of fun going back and forth with each other.)
PLEASE READ THIS.
At the age of 68, I've learned surprisingly Little of life's supposed "lessons", but one thing is for sure: any man or woman or business willing to do a "make good" in good faith because of a perceived or real or miscommunication is doing ALL HE OR SHE CAN DO to retain your support.
Mr. Cassidy's offer of a free download was timely and very generous; a pleasant note was sent along from a very busy professional. He is doing the HIGHEST & BEST a person with a business can do; more than this he cannot do!
This lecture was the first time I have spent any magic dough that might go to M. Cassidy. He can count on my sending more of my ailing wife's Medicare payouts his way.
"But for those who may have missed it and have said I'm "out of line" (Wow!)..."
You're surprised you were called out of line Bob? You absolutely were out of line. I can get more specific if it helps put the subject to rest and keeps you from doing the same thing in the future.
You said, "If you guys think that a lecture should be just one trick taught after another, you've completely missed the point, particularly when it comes to mentalism."
You're wrong. No one said that. Also, it's a classic straw man argument. And congratulations. You did manage to get some people to buy into the falsehood and side with you on something that was never said.
It's ironic that you say, "you've completely missed the point" when YOU are one who completely missed the point.
You said, "The fact is that we went for about four hours non-stop, and tried to cover every question that was called in to us."
"The fact is" those things are not being disputed. "The fact is", intentionally or not, you had conveniently ignored the actual issue.
Seeing the irony yet Bob?
You said, "Thank you, taranew. It's good to know that someone actually understood what we were doing."
People understood what you did. AGAIN, that wasn't the issue. It's what you didn't do that was clearly the issue.
You said, "I sincerely hope that guys like these don't ever try to inflict the public with whatever it is they seem to think is magic or mentalism. It's really sad."
Talk about being REALLY SAD, you attack and put down people who paid for your lecture for... for doing what exactly? For thinking the lecture should be one trick after another? For not understanding what you were "doing" with the lecture? None of those issues were raised by anyone except you.
So when someone says you were out of line, you say "WoW!"??
It's odd that you have a lot to say when you're making up issues to argue against but go silent or play the victim when the truth is told.
You don't have to be a mentalist to figure out why.
It is responses like that last long comment that convince members of our community to stop lecturing and releasing material.
The mistake was Penguin putting up a set list. When I saw that was even there I thought to myself, "This is going to be the best 8 hour lecture ever!" How else would everything be covered, and much of that material was already covered in previous lectures.
The death of magic shops and dwindling clubs is hurting the art, and I really appreciate what Penguin is trying to do. People NEED this type of lecture or we will become a YouTube only art.
I have subscribed for the past few months, and there have been some that I hate, and others love, and some I love that others hate. Penguin can't cater to everyone each lecture, but they are trying to provide a diverse selection. And they do it every week!
Great job on the event, those who don't like it now will come to appreciate it later. My first book was Steel and Silver, well beyond what I thought I would get, thanks to Gertner's appearance on TV. I didn't throw a fit requesting my money back. I read it, put it aside, and came back to it.
Bob was just trying to explain the value, anyone would do the same if they cared.
"It is responses like that last long comment that convince members of our community to stop lecturing and releasing material."
What an absolutely inane comment. Nothing about post my has anything to do with whether or not magicians lecture or release material. My post details exactly what happened here.
You apparently graduated from the Bob Cassidy School of Diversion and Ironic Comments. If any issue here has to do with magicians releasing material even remotely, it's the idea of material being misrepresented to the buyer. And let me be very clear, I do not think Bob or Richard intended to not include material from the promoted lecture list (with one exception I'll mention later). I think the lecture went in a different way than they intended. However, when someone is considering whether to buy something, they read the description of what it is.
According to the OPs list above, there were 12 things promoted as what was being taught. I just double checked and this is not an unheard of number of effects for Penguin Lectures. How many of those 12 were actually taught? Do you know? Do you know what you're arguing against? I'm guessing you don't.
According to the lists of effects here, of the 12 items on the original lecture list, 4 were taught. SEE THE PROBLEM? That is the issue that was raised.
If you bought a DVD of 12 effects because you were interested in those 12 effects and it turned out that there are only 4 on the DVD, are you trying to tell me that that would not be a problem???
Which brings me to your comment, "The mistake was Penguin putting up a set list."
You're wrong. It's not Penguin's mistake. Where do you think Penguin got the list?
I just live chatted with "Erik" from Penguin. I asked if Penguin asks a lecturer in advance for a list of what they'll teach. His reply, "That is their decision. It is great when they provide that".
It was not Penguin's mistake for putting up that set list. If you want to say that it was anyones "mistake", then it is the magician's for not teaching their set list.
While we're on this subject, Cassidy's Name/Place routine was listed in the original lecture set list he provided to Penguin. However, this exchange took place between Cassidy and someone on The Magic Cafe 2 days before the lecture...
Sep 12, 2014 02:51 pm
"Bob.....Any chance you'll cover alternate handlings (in lieu of fire) for name/place?"
Sep 12, 2014 02:55 pm
"I might touch on it, but on Monday I'll be shooting a new download for Penguin devoted to Name/Place in which alternate handlings will be covered."
So in this case it seems like the decision was made BEFORE the lecture to drop Name/Place and make it a $eparate download. Whose fault is that I wonder?
All I can say is Wow! Kurtblack has said everything better than I ever could. You should be a lawyer dude.
I said this in my review but me and my buddy watched this and weren't too happy. I can't see how anyone can argue when so much material was advertised and never presented. Was it really just four out of tweleve tricks scheduled? Some of you think its wrong to not be happy about that? I don't get it.
The reacton from some here is so totally off base its weird. Its got me stratching my head. Sorry Mr Cassidy and other fellow magi but you are in the immortal words of Kurtblack - out of line.
Did everyone see the comment by ladi1327 in the other section? It backs up Kurtblack...
I called Penguin and felt for the most part they did not respect my issue. They actually made statements that it is hard for them to control the lecture and that they updated the promo after the lecture. In other words, they took no responsibility for the misleading promo and placed the "blame" on you and Richard.
Bob Cassidy is one of the nicest, coolest, talented, generous people in the Art. I think he deserves our respect.
In the OLD days, to learn what he has taught was a right of passage and couldn't be gotten for under $30.
The lecture he and Richard gave was gold to anyone that actually performs.
How about performing the Henry Hardin effect that Bob Cassidy taught ( that wasn't listed in the original ad ) and when you floor people, then take another look at what he brought to the lecture and not vilify him for something that inadvertently got left out of a live setting.
Before I go on - let me first point out from the beginning that I am a hard core fan of Bob Cassidy and Richard Osterlind. Their contributions to the art can never be overstated.
That being said, I agree with some of the criticism's this lecture has received, and on the other hand I cherish the goldmine of information that Bob and Richard shared.
I FULLY understand peoples frustration about being told that they were buying one thing, then get something else entirely. "Bait and Switch". SO yeah, I get that. This is something that should be addressed by Penguin. There should be some sort of structure in place to deliver as advertised. Or at least a statement in the ad stating what is "Planned" to be covered. I honestly don't blame Bob or Richard for this deviation. They were in the heat of discussion, and it went where it went.
Now that being said, for me personally, SCREW the tricks. I would be happy if they eliminated every single effect and just discussed the things that really matter when it comes to performing Mentalism. I could sit for 4 hours and listen to Bob speak solely about the logical disconnect. So did I get my money's worth out of this lecture? I sure did.
And finally, while I do think Bob's initial reaction he posted above was a bit harsh, and I do agree a bit out of line, he is a human being. None of us want to really be criticized, although it can be very good for our growth. But it always hurts just a little. Bob came back on and owned up to it, and even offered something to those that bought the lecture to make things right. I think that's a stand up thing to do.
You, me, and everyone has lashed out at someone before that probably didn't deserve it. We are humans. We screw up sometimes. End of the day, hopefully this is a learning experience for everyone, Penguin, Bob and all the rest of us.
Any idiot should know that a lecture is a highly variable learning experience. A series of questions about one effect could disrupt another. Second people never complained about there not being enough material taught. Only that what was taught wasn't what was advertised. However this behavior is only really consistent with people who are intently focused on tricks and nothing else. Finally everyone who's complaining watched it live. So if you wanted to learn something why didn't you ask about it? If you didn't you have no right complaining.
kurtblack, I realize this is over a year old, and done with, but I can't help myself.
You are obviously an intelligent person. But JESUS WHAT A CRYBABY! You aren't going to change anyone's mind about anything. If anyone should understand that, it's YOU.
Go use that argumentative brain of yours for something good, other than arguing when you know you aren't going to get anywhere.
P.S. nobody likes you
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