EM-J... You are sadly giving the public information on a revolutionary product, that you are not dedicating the proper time to PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE using Tornado Box, just like any other magic content. Of course everyone will have different opinions, but your statements are misleading the people completely.
To everything I explain below in my own words; keep in mind something VERY important. This or any other effect may do the "magic" for you, however; you can't expect it to be flowers & roses blooming beautifully, You have to water it down.... anyway, point is: PERFORMANCE & PRESENTATION IS EVERYTHING, ESPECIALLY when it comes to self working visual magic!
Responses to your "issues":
1) I have three tornado boxes. Never had one problem with lighting, or tornado box looking the way you describe. There comes A LOT more with products you expect much more from that do all of the work for us magicians yet, You still have to PRACTICE! I don't even have any angel issues whatsoever.. This is not a "Video" Camera type of Sandsminds only in front of the camera, it actually looks that good 100% and real when you practice & do it right.
2) Of course it will have the sound you hear & if you watched the video, you would hear that MC states "the more you use and break in the gimmick, the better it gets"... He shows how to avoid the sound you are talking about. It should not be VERY noisy. If it is VERY noisy, you are NOT holding the box of cards properly, including your finger positioning - which he shows throughout the entire video explanation + through practicing with it, you will find what works best for you. For me, I personally like the noise, it is not VERY noisy by any means and many people that have asked me how I reduce it, is all about your finger and hand position.
For Example: 1) I like it with the noise and sometimes let the noise go louder than i can physically make it go.. Why? you may ask, because its all deception and misdirection. Just as Gregory Wilson, the king of misdirection would do: Basically; when I am ready to do the transformation I shake the box of cards in the air & SNAP my fingers at the same time, asking them "Did you see it go?" They obviously say no & I tell them, "Thats because I haven't done it yet" (inspiration from Greg), gives them a laugh and ready to give it another go.. I do this two times to the spectator and SNAP my fingers with the hand thats not holding the box when I ask them if they saw it go, and on the THIRD time, I do the transformation, Snapping my fingers like before (THEY'RE NOT FOCUSED ON THE SOUND.. YOU HAVE THEIR VISUAL ATTENTION) because they are paying attention to WHAT they are SEEING, the SOUND is irrelevant and goes right past them, misdirecting their mind if you are in a room or outside with minimal talking, you wont hear or see a thing. I personally love this a lot as do many others I share this idea with because it adds a total GW element into making the "noise" sound justified. You don't even need to snap your fingers the third time because they're focused on the box.
For Example: 2) You can control the sound you are referring to. Practice, Practice, PRACTICE. Finger placement is everything, catch and release, working on different ideas you might find work better for you. To state that it is NOT good in intimate performance settings is misleading as it may be "Not Good" for you, for others might feel completely opposite. For myself, If I don't want to do the whole snapping thing/ Gregory Wilson Deception, I will just do the transformation... Don't think about the sounds. If you think about it and focus on it, it will be your biggest enemy, rather than working on it & practicing control, finger placements and different ways to hold the box. Just like if you're holding ENVY'LOPE, PANIC or any "false deck" that you have to hold the way you would have a deck of cards in your hand. If you're holding a gimmick like ENVY-LOPE and you are exposing dead space on your hand clearly seeing there is no real deck, you aren't going to like it and are not doing it right. I am trying to give you strong advice to truly try to work with this because I wouldn't write all of this if I didn't want to help someone out. Trust me, I get thrown off from one simple problem and is easy for me to say it wont work like this, that and just not a good product.. But i changed that because most people work around little things that seem "big things" for us.
3) The gimmick is not supposed to be examined.. Honestly, If someone asks me which I have had a couple of people, I would turn the box 360degrees, open it up show them the inside, back and front and they are STUNNED! It never has gotten that far for me and I have been performing with this since the day it arrived upon release. This is a non-issue, like I said PERFORMANCE & PRESENTATION IS EVERYTHING! If you do a great PRESENTATION people will not remember or be able to process the transformation in front of their eyes. Especially when your table hopping, performing on the street, doing your thing this is a complete issue you will have with any gimmick similar, practice your presentation & how you would bring Tornado Box into play. If you are sitting staring at one person across a table and they are going to say let me see everything you have, that is okay however! you have to know how to cover your bases... Again this comes down to PRESENTATION & MISDIRECTION. Ever thought of doing a DECK SWITCH??? Having a second "normal" box on you doing a routine will alleviate your concerns so when the transpo finishes, you can misdirect them & make your own way to switch out a normal box. It comes with anything like this. For me & Most, this is something people don't & wont ask to see... They already are mind blown from what you did with the visual transpos & if you keep your presentation up, move on and go to the next thing/ whatever you have lined up. People may ask to see the box, no doubt but it is very rare for me that it happens and that is because of the presentation & how you misdirect them. Before getting something like this, search Penguin for instant downloads on masters of misdirection like Greg Wilson.
You seem to rely on the "MAGIC" itself, while from the very beginning I stated the theme of my response is PERFORMANCE & PRESENTATION IS EVERYTHING, ESPECIALLY when it comes to self working visual magic. Little Door passes you test beacause it doesnt have the extra secret components that don't cause any problems for me if I wanted to hand out. All of your issues are more P3 - PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE & learn more misdirection, same way I came up with the snapping routine even though I might not do it all the time, sometimes I use Mystery Smoke, Pyro, or simply wave my other hand over the box. Stomp your foot, snap your fingers, say a certain word, do a deck switch, whatever it takes - your imagination is endless, UNLESS you are relying on TORNADO BOX to do EVERYTHING for you, as that is the theme of this response and your "issues" to this product.
I promise you people will not be so interested in seeing the box. I am happy to show it, I don't do a deck switch as I don't have the concern and when it is in normal box mode, you cant tell unless you physically show the side or something. I like to show it to them BEFORE they even ask to see it, so its done and once you keep doing that, it will get easier & easier, you'll have no fears about things like this. Little Door is just as problematic with the CARDS in the box... unless you do something else, so you can use COLD CASE. Point is, there will always be issues and magic will never do everything itself. Get creative, and think outside of the box!!! Don't give up so easily. I felt the same way about DOUBLE CROSS when I first got it for how you start, but No One Remembers... It is the same concept with this. I have an insane routine with Double Cross + Two Tornado Boxes back to DC, I would be happy to share if you would like the help.
Please know, I am only trying to help. I know where you are coming from completely .I would feel the exact same way about everything you said but they are really non issues if you rule out and figure out control & how you will be doing this effect. By the way, I've performed TB right in front of someones face when they told me to do it again, the odd thing is.. the tiny X on the box vanished to their nose.... NO joke, it was so EPIC & got digits too! If there is anything I can do to assist you with Tornado Box Please don't hesitate to reach out. Just don't give up so easily, this is a revolutionary effect that many people have not discovered yet, and a lot have. The more I post about it via social media; the more people buy it and see how everything I stated about the concerns even angels, are all controllable, just like when I got hover card plus for the first time and was frustrated as hell until I finally practiced my ass off on presentation and performance.
Lastly: A good thing that I do, Is I keep my card boxes always in the Cellophane. Maybe perform the effect, as far as someone wanting to see the box - just put the cellophane RIGHT BACK ON the box after you do the transformation & give them the box... they're not going to take the cellophane off especially as it will be nice and snug, so that is a last minute tip that I can def.. offer as an idea.
Whether you use these words & advice that is up to you. If you choose to revisit this at another time while working on presentation & performance ideas - that sounds more of what you are needing & missing from not only this product but Little Door, & probably more. Take care, Use it well & if it is not for you then send it back, however don't expect much to change about this or items like this. If anything the noise could be possibly adjusted but that is made because it makes the gimmick so much stronger, to LAST longer, rather then not working one day you pick it up. Mickael Chatelain only puts out the very greatest, durable long lasting gimmicks at affordable pricing. This has changed the era of visual magic of INK effects, CGI, Reveals, Peeks, Writing your freaking shopping list and making it change to the devil! Whatever you think of, this is a utility that will last long and for far with so many tricks like DC. This was my best purchase of the year, & when you do the transformation wave your hand above it, not covering, but simply adding some flavor so you can have a magical moment - similar to any ambitious card move. Practice Practice PRACTICE! It takes MAGICIANS to perform MAGIC, not the Magic itself :)
Hi Andrew,
This is EM-J.
I simply AND very strongly do not agree with you at all and we'll have to agree to disagree.
You stated "to state that it is NOT good in intimate performance settings is misleading as it may be "Not Good" for you, for others might feel completely opposite."
That is obvious. I provided a review and it's obvious that it's based on my experience and opinion. That doesn't need to be stated with every review. I assumed your original review was based on YOUR experience.
I agree performance is everything and gimmicks just help. That is completely obvious. I also typically abhor out of box scripts. Frankly, your repetition of "practice" is a little condescending. That is also obvious. However my issues have neither to do with performance or practice. Just product.
I do not like this product for the reasons I stated. Maybe others will. I have certain expectations from my gimmicks. This product failed those expectations. Again, for others maybe that won't be the case.
I gave a COMPLETELY HONEST REVIEW: 1) I don't like way the product looks closeup and in well-lit areas. The product "design" makes me uncomfortable to perform too close 2) It is noisy in quiet situations. Product does not meet my expectations at all in this area what I expect by default 3) You can't hand out for examination.
Magicians that care about those things should know them. My concerns have zero to do with performance and practice and everything with product. Maybe my concerns are not yours, but they're mine and maybe for others as well.
I also do not like the way the product works. Again, maybe others will.
You mentioned "Panic". let's dissect that trick for a moment. Panic is genius. Yes, practice and performance are ultimately what's important, but the Panic gimmick itself is a classic and passes a high bar in so many ways. 1) you can do in broad daylight about two feet from a spectator's face 2) No noise 3) The spectator doesn't need to examine anything, because logically there is no reason to ask. 4) Any-level skilled magician should be able to perform Panic with complete confidence in 30 minutes tops, and that's generous.
Some other great examples: Strange Travelers and Return Flight. Both COMPLETELY UNEXAMINABLE! But they don't need to be, presentation takes care of everything in a way it doesn't make sense for the spectator to ask, and not logical to even offer if it were possible to do so.
Let's compare box tricks: Tornado vs Little Door.
You probably have a different style than me and that's ok. But maybe we have completely different philosophies about "examination".
If you have what appears to be a normal deck of cards, it's ridiculous to run if you're not being chased. Why even say the cards are normal? Why hand out if not asked? One shouldn't, IT'S NOT LOGICAL!
When I perform Little Door, or the Amazing Jumping Arrow, etc. I ALWAYS hand the box and hotrod to the spectator without saying a word, even if they don't ask. And I can do it obviously, slowly and super-clean. It just takes the experience to a whole new level when the magical moment was out of this world and the spectator is handling an object that was a miracle in front of their face and there is zero explanation. (and, in my experience, the spectator is either consciously or subconsciously itching to get their hands on those items)
It's complete logical to be able to hand out gimmicks as "props". (The spectator doesn't know it's a gimmick if the performance is done correctly). E.g. When handed to the spectator, Little Door is just a "ordinary" box. And for that matter, the same with "Under Wraps". When something OVERTLY weird is happening with a "prop" (secretly a "gimmick") it's mind-blowing to leave on the table or gently put into the spectator's hand. Let them scratch the itch. Can't do that with "Tornado box". For me that's an issue, for other, maybe not.
Sometimes switches or moves are necessary. For example with card specific tricks like "Ink-Redible" and "Flux". Those switches are happening with what you're already holding. But with full decks...I HATE DECK SWITCHES (and in this case, box switches). Not my cup of tea. Not my style. Again, maybe it's yours.
I believe in product honesty with customers and they need to somewhat know what they're in for (without tipping the method), and make a purchase judgement based on their performance style and not what others project on what their performance style should be.
Maybe this product works for you and others who agree with you. But, it didn't work for me and I'm sure there are those who might find what I'm saying helpful for them. There's more than one path here.
To me, I have have high inherent functional expectations for gimmicks (and to some degree "props") and this product did not meet them.
Thanks for your review and feedback.
Not happy at all
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